Forum Rules and Guidelines Discussion

I'm 70 years old now. One day I hope to be as mature in my attitudes as you are.

It's just a journey. We're all doing this our own way. I was just reflecting, I was among some friends tonight. Just ordinary people. Among that crowd I felt far behind. Don't be fooled by what I write, it may just be an act.

Planting our flags. That is an interesting phrase. First it means claiming some territory. But later it means defending that against all comers.

A while ago I used to be aggressively antagonistic towards particular groups - traditional religion and conventional materialism would be examples.  But in a way that was just a defence against feeling my own position under pressure. But that seems to have changed. It doesn't seem so important any more. Maybe the outside threats have diminished. Or maybe I just stopped listening to them.

Whatever the reason, these days I feel more of a connection with others, regardless of where we may claim our ground to plant the flags. Trying to demonstrate the 'rightness' of one's position and the error of one's opponents after a while starts to look like madness. There are human traits, I have them, I've used them, done my share of harming others. And for what? A few moment's satisfaction at landing a blow on another. It does feel right sometimes. After a while though, that person on the receiving end of the blow becomes oneself. Then what? Sorrow follows. It isn't easy, this life. But it only ends in realising that the other is oneself.

It's good that you have come to that place with the human dilemma I described.
 More specifically I was trying to convey how disconcerting it has felt to me when in trying to unhook from the materialist world view when an ally at one level turns out to be any enemy at the other.  One level, being kindred spirits in exploring, studying and working toward legitimizing a spiritual world view through which we derive our deepest values and the other level being on opposite sides of the social political divide. I have lost or strained several frienships around this.

OK - I will answer your observation with my own and leave it at that. I did consider you and Michael Larkin as kindred spirits when the discussions were limited to Psi related subjects but yes, I lost that sense of compatibility as soon as you both started stating your political views which were (and are) anathema to me (by the way, I don't buy your anti-war excuse ... I don't know anyone who isn't anti-war so that does not set you apart from the rest of us). Nevertheless, it was your moderation that caused a lot of bad feeling, not just with me but with others as some of them have expressed in this very thread. The fact that it was you who banned me was, in my opinion, not unrelated to my opposition to your political and social statements in public on Skeptiko.

So you can argue chicken and egg but it is clear in my mind and my recollection. But you are right in one thing: my awareness of your stance on the matters we should avoid here does mean that I can never trust your motives again. I happen to continue to agree with your posts on Psi and the way it is dismissed by the materialist orthodoxy but I just can't square that with what I know of your other views. I'm afarid there's no putting the genie back in the bottle.

Well seriously, do you think that only people who vote the same way as you do are proper people to engage with on this forum? Doesn't it even cross your mind that people who vote in other ways, may have valid reasons for their choices? None of us used to think this way about politics - say 20 years ago.

Being anti-war is not 'an excuse'. I think it is the most important question - certainly when an American votes - is this candidate more or less likely to promote the cause of peace.

Well seriously, do you think that only people who vote the same way as you do are proper people to engage with on this forum? Doesn't it even cross your mind that people who vote in other ways, may have valid reasons for their choices? None of us used to think this way about politics - say 20 years ago.

Being anti-war is not 'an excuse'. I think it is the most important question - certainly when an American votes - is this candidate more or less likely to promote the cause of peace.

There you go again - trying to draw me into a political argument. It isn't just who you would vote for or this pathetic anti-war red herring, it was the rest of your political and social views- as you well know because you and Michael Larkin preached them over at Skeptiko. I am not going to argue politics with you here no matter how much you goad me. In fact I am not going to respond to you again so fire away at my Ignore shield as much as you like.

[Ninshub]

Well seriously, do you think that only people who vote the same way as you do are proper people to engage with on this forum? Doesn't it even cross your mind that people who vote in other ways, may have valid reasons for their choices? None of us used to think this way about politics - say 20 years ago.

Being anti-war is not 'an excuse'. I think it is the most important question - certainly when an American votes - is this candidate more or less likely to promote the cause of peace.

Yes this isn't appropriate David. What justification is there for going into, or furthering, a political topic on a very thread where we're discussing those kinds of topics being off the main forum in the first place?!?

You've said yourself you agree with the idea of politics not being a good fit for a psi forum.

Just because Kamarling said something that got you going, do you not have the willpower to control that instinct to answer back? Or at the very least answering somewhere else in the opt-in forums, or through attempted PM?

[Ninshub]

Further posts on this thread not respecting the forum rules will simply be deleted.

It isn't just who you would vote for or this pathetic anti-war red herring, it was the rest of your political and social views-

As he now has both David and myself on ignore, this post isn’t visible to Kamarling, I regret that and wish he were not so sensitive, however…

Really, for someone to be so openly against other members ‘political and social views’ that are not radical or in any way unusual and still have a strong feeling against that individual because of them, yet be part of the ‘admin’ team, that make decisions about members of all political persuasions, is surely not healthy or sensible? Kamarling is so heavily opinionated that he is a liability IMO. 

Kamarling may claim that he doesn’t take an active part in the forums moderation, he simply ‘lets his feelings be known to the admins’ - but he definitely does influence their decisions!  

Transparency lacking once more.

As he now has both David and myself on ignore, this post isn’t visible to Kamarling, I regret that and wish he were not so sensitive, however…

Really, for someone to be so openly against other members ‘political and social views’ that are not radical or in any way unusual and still have a strong feeling against that individual because of them, yet be part of the ‘admin’ team, that make decisions about members of all political persuasions, is surely not healthy or sensible? Kamarling is so heavily opinionated that he is a liability IMO. 

Kamarling may claim that he doesn’t take an active part in the forums moderation, he simply ‘lets his feelings be known to the admins’ - but he definitely does influence their decisions!  

Transparency lacking once more.

No need to worry any more Steve. I've just informed one of the admins that I am leaving. But in response to your accusation, I think it is a bit rich calling me opinionated and a liability from you of all people. 

Anyhow, I'm sure that if you try a little harder, you and Bailey can wreck this forum too.

I've just informed one of the admins that I am leaving.

That's really unfortunate as I enjoy and value your posts. Your gloomy outlook, too. I wish you'd reconsider.

I'm sure those who know you better feel even more strongly about this than I do.

think it is a bit rich calling me opinionated and a liability from you of all people. 

I’m not an admin, nor do I wish to be. 

Unlike you, my opinions are of little consequence, they’re not used to influence the forum’s rules.