Feedback wanted on the three links per week limit in the opt-in forums (and beyond)

Completely agree.

I don't. You seem to have developed a new persona with the same avatar.  You are now Mr Reasonable, apparently.  Leaving that aside, I don't agree, that members should be free to just delete all their posts and ruin multiple threads. 

Max is welcome back but I can't defend that kind of behaviour.

I can understand this is a difficult issue for the mods who feel COVID mis/information can be a matter of life & death that doesn't usually apply to discussions about Psi/NDEs/UFOs/etc, but as the (in?)-famous link aggregator of Skeptiko I'm wary of the proposed limitation. 

We already have a much stricter policy for political/conspiracy posts than other forums, in that we made them invisible without opt-in.

The closest issue I can think of is Psi/Energy Healing...not sure we would want to restrict posts about that?

Leaving that aside, I don't agree, that members should be free to just delete all their posts and ruin multiple threads.

I just think it's one of those things that if you provide a delete button and don't have a policy about it in the beginning, it's unfair to then add new rules later given posters have assumed they'd be able to delete their posts if they so desired when they participated in the forums.

In general I also dream of the day when all the skeptics eat crow and delete their posts in shame. ;-)

The only motivation behind these changes, was/is to make it harder for Stan to post his opinions within the hidden opt-in forums, the purpose being to degrade his ability to post this content - that's all this is about. I've seen no evidence of any negative effect from the hidden opt-in forums onto the main forums. Indeed rather the opposite, it's arguable that the presence of the hidden forums has had a positive role in easy diversion and isolation of this subject matter from the main forums. Things only spilled over onto the main forums, when an attempt was made to throttle Stan's posting on the hidden forums.

I think the choices Laird now says we're presented with  - are loaded, and I'd instead make a different choice, which is to support the original Status Quo for the hidden forums.

The threat to leave, by those who sought these restrictions, should not be weighed when coming to any decision. This threat to leave, is only a way of leveraging the outcome of any decision in the favor of those who seek these restrictions. Whereas a carefully consideration of the facts, appears to show that the 'relatively' uncensored hidden opt-in forums work more effectively, in keeping the main forums free of this subject matter, and when further controls were attempted within the hidden forums, they became less effective in doing that job. So I think it's totally wrong, and is NOT in the best interests for members of the main forum, to agree to either of the two choices presented, as it is likely to result in a worse outcome.

[Re: Deleting my own posts: I haven't made any agreement that this forum has any rights over my original content].

This threat to leave, is only a way of leveraging the outcome of any decision in the favor of those who seek these restrictions.

This simply isn't true and suggests an attempt on your part to manipulate.  Read Kamarling's post again where he explains why.

I can understand this is a difficult issue for the mods who feel COVID mis/information can be a matter of life & death that doesn't usually apply to discussions about Psi/NDEs/UFOs/etc, but as the (in?)-famous link aggregator of Skeptiko I'm wary of the proposed limitation. 

We already have a much stricter policy for political/conspiracy posts than other forums, in that we made them invisible without opt-in.

The closest issue I can think of is Psi/Energy Healing...not sure we would want to restrict posts about that?


I just think it's one of those things that if you provide a delete button and don't have a policy about it in the beginning, it's unfair to then add new rules later given posters have assumed they'd be able to delete their posts if they so desired when they participated in the forums.

In general I also dream of the day when all the skeptics eat crow and delete their posts in shame. ;-)

My view, Sci is that deleting a few posts is acceptable, of course. Maybe the member thought they were badly written or whatever reason?

However, deleting all of your posts is bordering on vandalism, IMHO, because it spoils the board for others. If everyone did that (and why can't everyone if one person does it?) there wouldn't be any point in having a forum, surely. 

Surely when you come to a forum to post, you enter into the spirit of it and that includes a few rules. If you don't want your posts seen or you are protective of them and the information (you're not sure you really want others to read it) then don't post...or do post it but warn others in advance that you are going to remove it. That's all I would say. 

I assume Max did what he did in a fit of temper and we all get like that sometimes but I don't think he should have done it. Does he need to apologise ? Obviously not as he was welcomed back.

Personally, I don't think every mistake somebody makes should be permanently etched in stone on internet forums.  I think a person should at least have the right to make old posts anonymous.

Personally, I don't think every mistake somebody makes should be permanently etched in stone on internet forums.  I think a person should at least have the right to make old posts anonymous.

How about giving people the right to delete a post for 1 week (say), but then let that right lapse - otherwise deletions can destroy the structure of the argument being pursued in the thread.

I can understand this is a difficult issue for the mods who feel COVID mis/information can be a matter of life & death that doesn't usually apply to discussions about Psi/NDEs/UFOs/etc, but as the (in?)-famous link aggregator of Skeptiko I'm wary of the proposed limitation. 

We already have a much stricter policy for political/conspiracy posts than other forums, in that we made them invisible without opt-in.

I think the whole policy of restricting alternative views about COVID is wrong-headed. I mean people (not necessarily here) call such posts "Anti-science" - but isn't most of what we post here anti-science when you think about it? Only those who support materialism here can claim that science always gives us the truth - and of course I am sure there are plenty of materialists who would not make that claim.

The question in both cases is whose authority do we take as absolute? If we feel science has absolute authority then this forum might as well close. Alternatively if we realise that science can be badly warped by peer pressure, commercial conflicts of interest, etc etc, this applies to both COVID and psi. Furthermore if our discussions affect whether someone seeks psychiatric advice, you could argue that we could cause someone to fall ill or die or even harm someone else.

Stan and I are UK citizens and our country is just coming out of winter, yet for reasons I have already described, we aren't in lockdown, nor is there a mask mandate, and there is talk of dropping even the requirement to shelter when infected with COVID at the end of this month. Sweden has never gone into lockdown. Surely those undeniable observations should make everyone realise that there is something important to discuss?

 Sweden has never gone into lockdown.

I'm not going to discuss the subject but you don't know enough about Sweden and why we did what we did here and where it went wrong and why it wouldn't have worked at all in most countries.  Besides, we did have lockdowns, just not as strict as most countries.  I get fed up of Sweden, my home country, being used in the politicizing of this.

Sorry to the mods for having to say this outside the opt in forums but I needed to answer this one because it really winds me up!

Surely those undeniable observations should make everyone realise that there is something important to discuss?

I mean there are all sorts of important things to discuss in the realm of politics and/or conspiracy theories? This includes political issues in science. Just not sure a forum about the paranormal is the right place for all that. Most proponents aren't anti-science, if anything the feeling is that academia is biased in the arena of parapsychology which itself is a science?

Also, it does seem to be a complicated moral dilemma for the mods if they feel there is a more immediate and general threat re: COVID. I'm not sure how I would feel if I had to moderate the sub-forums and there was some topic I found not just distasteful but actively causing harm.

Heck, if we had a bunch of posters forgoing regular treatment and claiming to just rely on psychic energy or a helpful spirit I'd be wary but at least it's in the purview of the forum's intended purpose.

Anyway, I'm all for keeping those forums opt-in and ideally without any posting restriction. Seems like a useful compromise to me, but then again I'm not visiting those forums or modding them so easy to say.