Death Anxiety (but not what u think)

Honestly I was never particularly fond of Ernest Becker, his ideas about death seemed simplistic and overly nihilistic. An incredibly narrow view attempting to explain the broad attitudes towards death across cultures. The pshycological theory based on his work, Terror Management Theory, continuing to come into trouble when it comes to people not being afraid of dying for no apparent reason makes me think that his way of thinking is the type we need to move beyond. An embrace of death, no longer shunning it, hiding it away from public view or making it seem that much more horrible for no real reason, using that fresh understanding of mortality free from previous religious trappings or depressive simplistic atheistic nihilistic takes. A perspective that celebrates death as much as we do life to hopefully find a way where we can all go towards the end understandably CONCERNED, but not afraid.

My impression in life is that most people in our society at least do in fact have a repressed neurotic dread of a personal annihilation in death, a prevalent characteristic in our population predicted by Becker. For instance, talk about death is mostly taboo, there is the common phenomenon of many advanced cancer patients needlessly prolonging their painful chemo and radiation treatments long after it makes no sense medically, and the popularity of various mostly bogus high-tech schemes to cheat death, like transhumanism, and the freezing the body at liquid nitrogen temperatures in the hope of revival someday using some sort of hoped-for future medical advances. 

Of course, some other cultures do not have anywhere near as great a prevalence of the materialistic denial of the soul and the afterlife brainwashed in by scientism; there the instinctive dread of death is somewhat ameliorated by these religious beliefs.

My impression in life is that most people in our society at least do in fact have a repressed neurotic dread of a personal annihilation in death, a prevalent characteristic in our population predicted by Becker. For instance, talk about death is mostly taboo, there is the common phenomenon of many advanced cancer patients needlessly prolonging their painful chemo and radiation treatments long after it makes no sense medically, and the popularity of various mostly bogus high-tech schemes to cheat death, like transhumanism, and the freezing the body at liquid nitrogen temperatures in the hope of revival someday using some sort of hoped-for future medical advances. 

Of course, some other cultures do not have anywhere near as great a prevalence of the materialistic denial of the soul and the afterlife brainwashed in by scientism; there the instinctive dread of death is somewhat ameliorated by these religious beliefs.

I think you should not accept it if you are plagued with this dread, I am sure there must be psychiatric or hypnotic help available.

I wonder just how old are you, because as I said above I think this fear diminishes with age. I talked to my parents about this a bit, and they both said that they feared the process of dying, but not death itself.

I also think you would enjoy this website more if you could get over this. I mean I think all of us can invent materialist explanations of more or less any phenomenon, but it is the number of such phenomena that need to be explained that makes me think the conventional materialist viewpoint just doesn't cut it!

You are certainly right, I am sure, that chemo and radiation are continued far too long in terminally ill patients. I wonder if many patients agree to it because they find it hard to say they want to stop, but if the doctor came and suggested giving up, they might be quite enthusiastic.

Have you ever used alternate therapy for anything? I tried it out for sciatica because I was offered a 6 week wait for a preliminary doctor's appointment! I discovered that acupuncture is a great treatment for sciatica, and this experience chipped away yet another bit of my belief in modern science.

David

I don’t think fear of death diminishes with age. As least not purely as a function of age. My father in law seems terrified as the prospect approaches. Perhaps in his case, a crash course of thinking about it is just too much. I’m hoping that the years I have spent trying to form an opinion will make me more contemplative about it but who knows? Leaving aside worries about the process itself.

For most of us, forming a view about survival and what that might mean, takes quite a bit of time, effort and thought. I’m not sure it’s possible to do that as if we are cramming for an exam, and have at least a degree of confidence in it. I suspect most people don’t really think too deeply about the subject until pushed or hold religious beliefs that are sufficient to mean they don’t feel the need to give the subject much open minded thought. Religious beliefs can be such a persistent blocker sometimes. 

I have known people who had direct personal experiences, which for them were unequivocal proof that we survive. I can’t think of many who fall into that category but there’s enough evidence for the average person to be reasonably confident in survival IMHO, and not enough to make it incontrovertible for those who are opposed to the idea. Exactly what that afterlife is like (assuming there is one) seems much harder to pin down. 

Fear of death seems perfectly rational to me. The uncertainty about whether this is  all there is and the inevitability that our life here will end  seem to me to be enough to make even the firmest of stomachs a little queasy.

I think you should not accept it if you are plagued with this dread, I am sure there must be psychiatric or hypnotic help available.

I wonder just how old are you, because as I said above I think this fear diminishes with age. I talked to my parents about this a bit, and they both said that they feared the process of dying, but not death itself.

I also think you would enjoy this website more if you could get over this. I mean I think all of us can invent materialist explanations of more or less any phenomenon, but it is the number of such phenomena that need to be explained that makes me think the conventional materialist viewpoint just doesn't cut it!

You are certainly right, I am sure, that chemo and radiation are continued far too long in terminally ill patients. I wonder if many patients agree to it because they find it hard to say they want to stop, but if the doctor came and suggested giving up, they might be quite enthusiastic.

Have you ever used alternate therapy for anything? I tried it out for sciatica because I was offered a 6 week wait for a preliminary doctor's appointment! I discovered that acupuncture is a great treatment for sciatica, and this experience chipped away yet another bit of my belief in modern science.

David

I didn't intend to leave the impression that I am one of the people I referred to who have a deep dread of death. Most of the time I don't think about this, and when I do I am more than 90% sure that there is an afterlife based on much study of the evidence. I do entertain a little of the cognitive dissonance that I mentioned. And of course I just don't really know what it will be like, despite numerous NDE accounts.

My impression in life is that most people in our society at least do in fact have a repressed neurotic dread of a personal annihilation in death, a prevalent characteristic in our population predicted by Becker. For instance, talk about death is mostly taboo, there is the common phenomenon of many advanced cancer patients needlessly prolonging their painful chemo and radiation treatments long after it makes no sense medically, and the popularity of various mostly bogus high-tech schemes to cheat death, like transhumanism, and the freezing the body at liquid nitrogen temperatures in the hope of revival someday using some sort of hoped-for future medical advances. 

Of course, some other cultures do not have anywhere near as great a prevalence of the materialistic denial of the soul and the afterlife brainwashed in by scientism; there the instinctive dread of death is somewhat ameliorated by these religious beliefs.

I would say the cases that you list are heavily affected by cultural beliefs and lack of a healthy perspective on death more than anything. Death will always be a frightening prospect, as it should be. Regardless of any kind of survival you only live this life once, that's nothing to dismiss. But cancer patients needlessly prolonging treatment, transhumanists and billionares trying anything and everything to keep themselves alive forever seems like an unhealthy obsession with life and lack of self reflection. An attachment to the things we've built up but refuse to let go of, even though they were never really ours. People who are so afraid of death because they never confronted it before this point and continue to refuse to accept it. The refusing to talk about death is a prime example of cultural beliefs since outside of the prodominant western culture, especially American/British there are lots of cultures that feature death and death imagery quite heavily and without fear. Skulls, open casket funerals, exhumation of bodies for ritual cleaning, holidays and ceremonies that celebrate death and the deceased ect ect. 

I don’t think fear of death diminishes with age. As least not purely as a function of age. My father in law seems terrified as the prospect approaches. Perhaps in his case, a crash course of thinking about it is just too much. I’m hoping that the years I have spent trying to form an opinion will make me more contemplative about it but who knows? Leaving aside worries about the process itself.

And I just wanted to respond to this too because it is scientifically proven that fear of death itself diminishes with age and while the effect is very VERY common, it is certainly not the same for everyone. Reading papers about death anxiety is very interesting and I'd definitely recommend it for anybody who's interested. The whole aging process, something that people are also unnecessarily afraid of, seems to very much provide time for self reflection and acceptance of one's lot in life and mortality. But the various different explanations for why death anxiety is lower in elderly is way too much for a simple comment response. Most important thing is make sure you live a life you don't regret living, definitely seems to help with not being afraid.

I recall something a friend once said that how no one can really predict how they will react in a life or death situation such as being drafted into war as a young man for the sake of old men's politics.

We probably should have more cultural touchstones with death, not just in the West but really wherever there is privilege of wealth I think you have a separation between the biological realities and pleasure from consumption.

But I don't think anyone can guarantee what their response would be when the time comes, and at least accepting this fear as a part of one's self seems better than trying to force the negation of such emotion?

I didn't intend to leave the impression that I am one of the people I referred to who have a deep dread of death. Most of the time I don't think about this, and when I do I am more than 90% sure that there is an afterlife based on much study of the evidence. I do entertain a little of the cognitive dissonance that I mentioned. And of course I just don't really know what it will be like, despite numerous NDE accounts.

Sorry, I think this confusion comes from having a n-way discussion and trying to collapse it into a 1-1 discussion.

David

But I don't think anyone can guarantee what their response would be when the time comes, and at least accepting this fear as a part of one's self seems better than trying to force the negation of such emotion?

True, but I think the point is that far too many people are ruled by that fear or one of its derivatives, for example:

1) Fear of materialism because the philosophy insists that death is the end.

2) Fear of evidence for nonmaterialist ideas of various sorts, because these open up a Pandora's box of possibilities.

3) The insistence that life has evolved on Earth by unguided natural selection, ven when there are powerful arguments that this is not so. Most kids never get to see those arguments, and thus take RM+NS for granted.

4) A perverse desire among some people who want to believe in some form of non-materialist reality, to want to continually check that they are not being fooled. Due diligence is one thing, but that can go too far.

Etc.

The problem isn't the emotions in the last few days of life, but the emotions over the rest of life.

David

4)      A perverse desire among some people who want to believe in some form of non-materialist reality, to want to continually check that they are not being fooled. Due diligence is one thing, but that can go too far.

David

I believe the alternative to truth-seeking is faith. Why is it so pervasive to scrutinize the subtle suggestions we have that death is not the end?

I know we discuss things like NDEs and stuff here which is linked to the topic of death. But I don't really think anything at all about death itself. Sometimes I think of life as like a conveyor belt, rolling along, and when we are young, there are huge numbers of people on the belt ahead of us, so we don't see where it is heading. Like all of us, I'm getting older, there are not so many people ahead of me now. But it really doesn't concern me, it doesn't seem very much of anything.

I think fear is very much something which relates to life, not death. As best we can, I think we need to live based on other factors. Be realistic certainly, but not be limited by fears which may be irrational and unfounded.