Cosmic Cradle: pre-birth memories

A very interesting new article on pre-birth memories, especially the between lives life-choice variety, in the latest issue of Edge Science, Society of Scientific Exploration's magazine, issue #51 December 2022, at https://scientificexploration.s3.amazona...xdfybE8%3D .

From Andy Hilton, Pre-Birth Memories, pgs. 8-13:


One observation concerning this article is that with only a couple of exceptions neither the author, or any of the writers and investigators mentioned, are mentioned to have had any reservations over the metaphysical implications of these stories. This is particularly with regard to the objections and reservations I have expressed, based on the difficulty in imagining the actual human individual personality in the pre-birth state (as opposed to some other entirely different spiritual entity) ever making the choices that obviously must be being made to undergo next physical lives of very great, even overwhelming, suffering. None of the writers and researchers seem to have thought of this objection, unless they quickly suppress it as being too uncomfortable a question.

I think it's just a particular point of view that the wisdom of the soul making these decisions supercedes the mortal frame of reference. Which I guess is partly understandable...but looking at this world I find the idea of it being a school to be bizarre. There's also something uncomfortable (disgusting?) about the idea that the most horrendous crimes against children one knows exist - I'll avoid details since we can all look it up and are likely already aware - are just part of a transcendental education process.

From an evidential stand point, I would say there's definitely something here that cannot easily be denied without making the same attacks against testimony skeptics give for every supernatural event. OTOH, I think this idea of life planning prior to birth has to be set against NDEs and other afterlife accounts that seem to differ on what awaits us. My personal suspicion is that this planet - if not this universe - is used by multiple spirit communities for varied purposes.

Unfortunately your link to the scientific exploration article doesn't work for me.

Sorry. The following link works correctly as far as I can tell, whether you are an SSE member or not, to download the issue containing the article:  https://www.scientificexploration.org/ed...e-issue-51 . I've also edited the original post.

I think it's just a particular point of view that the wisdom of the soul making these decisions supercedes the mortal frame of reference. Which I guess is partly understandable...but looking at this world I find the idea of it being a school to be bizarre. There's also something uncomfortable (disgusting?) about the idea that the most horrendous crimes against children one knows exist - I'll avoid details since we can all look it up and are likely already aware - are just part of a transcendental education process.

From an evidential stand point, I would say there's definitely something here that cannot easily be denied without making the same attacks against testimony skeptics give for every supernatural event. OTOH, I think this idea of life planning prior to birth has to be set against NDEs and other afterlife accounts that seem to differ on what awaits us. My personal suspicion is that this planet - if not this universe - is used by multiple spirit communities for varied purposes.

I agree that these pre-birth memories of a life planning process seem to be contradicted by much of the data from NDEs and other accounts.  Why and how are so many NDEs of a totally loving and good spiritual reality, NDEs many of which have veridical features indicating their reality? There seems to be a conflict beween bodies of evidence, where the NDE evidence far outweighs the between lives life choice data.

One way I can think of to rationalize these accounts is that maybe the apparent between lives life choice memories are the result of some very sophisticated memory distortion techniques implemented by the powers that be, where the actual experience was very different - the human personality actually totally rejected the idea of a next life of mainly great suffering, but still was forced to choose it by a higher more powerful spiritual entity. 

This deception hypothesis would seem to require that NDEs and other types of afterlife accounts also are from memories that have been heavily distorted for "higher" purposes not having the human welfare much in mind. 

This sort of hypothesis is so unpleasant that I tend to shy away from it.

Alternatively, it is rather more palatable to conclude that the state of consciousness of the person in the between lives afterlife must be so very different from that during physical life in body that it would have to be classified as an entirely separate and different being, a being that doesn't have intimate first person memories of suffering in physical life - to this being these memories must be abstract second person "information". However, we would still have to reconcile this hypothesis with the many NDE accounts and other types of afterlife accounts that don't mention such an important feature of afterlife existence.

[Ninshub]

I agree that these pre-birth memories of a life planning process seem to be contradicted by much of the data from NDEs and other accounts.  Why and how are so many NDEs of a totally loving and good spiritual reality, NDEs many of which have veridical features indicating their reality? There seems to be a conflict beween bodies of evidence, where the NDE evidence far outweighs the between lives life choice data.

Just on this point, where you seem to be riffing on a statement of Sci's. I'm not sure the pre-birth memories exhibit that much "planning". If I use just what's available in this book, there doesn't seem too much mention of that. Now and then a rough sense of whether this life with these parents or that life with those parents will have their different set or level of difficulties.

I watched this a few days back (along with several more from Alex Ferrari as he seems to be able to attract some interesting interviewees). Anyhow, the chap he's interviewing here has done a lot of research for his books and this interview kind of distills that research for the audience. If you watch from about minute 35:00 he talks about pre-birth and life planning. It is quite generalised and somewhat superficial but I wouldn't expect an in-depth discussion for a general audience.

https://youtu.be/Y0ez_HfTG4k?t=2100

I've got a lot of catching-up to do here; this thread contains a number of video links which I will watch eventually.

After that I don't expect to conclude anything in particular, I tend to absorb material and let it sit for a while and see what remains in my mind after a while. I typically don't reach strong opinions or views on these things. For example I've accepted the idea of past-lives for over forty years now but I can't really say what it all means though I've mulled it over many times over the years.

Just a personal perspective I suppose, I've long taken a very day-to-day approach to the deeper questions of existence; often just getting through the day is enough of a goal. Today I'm still in Christmas mode, listening to to some Christmas music and reflecting briefly on how different pieces affect me and noticing that it is a song from France which often impacts me most deeply, this doesn't reflect on my childhood or the interests of my parents or of my upbringing, not even of my daily preoccupations. It seems something from a life or lives lived long ago in another country still affects my choice of listening even today. I think in doing so I'm accessing something deeper within, it's a way of connecting the surface me with a more eternal me. And I still don't know what it means, except that we are not destroyed when the body ends.

I watched this a few days back (along with several more from Alex Ferrari as he seems to be able to attract some interesting interviewees). Anyhow, the chap he's interviewing here has done a lot of research for his books and this interview kind of distills that research for the audience. If you watch from about minute 35:00 he talks about pre-birth and life planning. It is quite generalised and somewhat superficial but I wouldn't expect an in-depth discussion for a general audience.

https://youtu.be/Y0ez_HfTG4k?t=2100

Thanks for that video,

I particularly noted the bit about pets turning up in the afterlife. I think the point is that pet (i.e. animal) consciousness feels just as real as human consciousness - both are obviously not explained by materialistic science.

David

The trouble is, any analogy I can think of in which the basic persona of the person remains after physical death, would imply that something like selective amnesia automatically occurs in this process. But why selective amnesia, other than for the system to delude the just arrived soul that a next physical life is desireable, rather than what it really may be in the worst cases, another visit to a terrible prison rife with unimaginable (from the afterlife standpoint) suffering. 

I certainly can't say whether or not it's the case, but it's certainly something to keep in mind. Why would any amnesia be involved, why would we even think about physical life the same way when we are unburdened by all our physically related senses which make it seem undesirable? Perhaps any kind of afterlife is just far more alien than we may like it to be.

I wonder what everyone (particularly nbtruthman) thinks of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RMTk6-QpSc

He tackles the question of why sign up for extremely painful lives. I don't know if it helps or not.

[Ninshub]

I brought Christian up a lot this late summer, and so nbtruthman is aware of him.

I just started listening to this latest interview. I like the bit when he talks about comparing his PBM with others, and the impact of finding out some of the details of the layout where they were just before coming here were the same.