Consciousness restored in man after 15 years in vegetative state

I've seen you argue elsewhere that the brain isn't necessary for consciousness. You are now taking a strong position about consciosness based on the condition of a compromised brain.

Yes you are right- I don' think the brain is principally responsible for consciousness, but it plays a role in our day to day ability to interact with our world, with no doubt for most people most of the time. 

Also it is a very important part our nervous system in terms of our senses and muscle control. Try interacting with other people in our 3D reality while in a state like this. Not very easy.

So to be clear- yes of course I think the brain is the most essential organ we have, and living a life without one is usually impossible (however not always).  

In this case of vegetative state, who knows the actual source of the deficit is. My point was not about the brain at all really. 

What I was saying was-  if I am ever to be in a situation where I was persistently unconscious for a prolonged period, no matter the reason, I wouldn't want my family to instruct the medical community take extraordinary measures to extend this period of vegetation. Just let me move through the door of death and get on with the next phase of my existence.

Remarkable what science can do. Maybe if they continue to improve they will tell us where their non local consciousness was all this time.

If you read the testimony of people who have recovered from comas, there are a variety of experiences occurring all while the patient looks 'dead' to the world. Many coma patients report being out of their bodies and able to see everything that is going on. They also report going in and out of this reality into another reality. It's quite common.  I would recommend Madeleine Lawrence's book "In a world of their own"

If you read the testimony of people who have recovered from comas, there are a variety of experiences occurring all while the patient looks 'dead' to the world. Many coma patients report being out of their bodies and able to see everything that is going on. They also report going in and out of this reality into another reality. It's quite common.  I would recommend Madeleine Lawrence's book "In a world of their own"

Yes. All true. As told in MANY coma accounts.

If you read the testimony of people who have recovered from comas, there are a variety of experiences occurring all while the patient looks 'dead' to the world. Many coma patients report being out of their bodies and able to see everything that is going on. They also report going in and out of this reality into another reality. It's quite common.  I would recommend Madeleine Lawrence's book "In a world of their own"

Your appeal to emotion won't sway. I need factual knowledge not hope. Do any of these testimonials provide that?

Your appeal to emotion won't sway. I need factual knowledge not hope. Do any of these testimonials provide that?

Where was the emotion ? Madeleine Lawrence carried out a study into coma patients. That's it. What they reported is what they reported.

 https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=RM0h...ts&f=false

Your appeal to emotion won't sway. I need factual knowledge not hope. Do any of these testimonials provide that?

LOL. Steve has not cracked the spine of that book. Doesn't need to. Seen thousands like it before.

Your appeal to emotion won't sway. I need factual knowledge not hope. Do any of these testimonials provide that?

  Have you read any of the accounts? 

They ALL provide facts. But like any facts, they can be disputed, or explained away, or simply ignored.

  Have you read any of the accounts? 

They ALL provide facts. But like any facts, they can be disputed, or explained away, or simply ignored.

We have different definitions of that word. In all my decades to listening to people that believe,  I've not ever heard of one fact being stated. No, I don't care to read testimonials.

No, I don't care to read testimonials.

No surprise you haven't come across any evidence then.

We have different definitions of that word. In all my decades to listening to people that believe,  I've not ever heard of one fact being stated. No, I don't care to read testimonials.

Just wondering: when does evidence become fact? Does it ever?

If a witness of a murder says: "a slender tall white man walked up and shot the guy in the chest".

That's testimonial evidence right?

After a second witness corroborates the story, is it still evidence? or fact?

After a third?

What happens when a police officer says, yes I saw that too?

Do these confirming stories EVER become considered "fact"?