Commentary thread for tim's "NDE's" thread

I've posted this Italian documentary before but the producer has subsequently (very kindly) provided English subtitles. The translation is not perfect (nor should we expect it to be). There are instances where he should be she for example but it's perfectly good enough to get the drift. 

All in all, a good documentary with some very pleasant scenery. I personally found the information provided by Anna Siboni, very compelling and David Vaccarin's subsequent "conversion" but others, of course may disagree.

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0flr8aZo7A

I finally got around to finding time to watch this. It was refreshing to find some entirely unfamiliar content, something I hadn't previously come across. With the exception of a brief mention of "the red slipper". One familiar feature is that people have been called 'crazy' when telling other people of their experiences. Though overall it did seem as though things were worse in the past, nowadays it is more acceptable (in general) to openly talk of these things. Though not in front of Alice Roberts, who will still call one 'bonkers'.

I finally got around to finding time to watch this. It was refreshing to find some entirely unfamiliar content, something I hadn't previously come across. With the exception of a brief mention of "the red slipper". One familiar feature is that people have been called 'crazy' when telling other people of their experiences. Though overall it did seem as though things were worse in the past, nowadays it is more acceptable (in general) to openly talk of these things. Though not in front of Alice Roberts, who will still call one 'bonkers'.

Agreed. I thought it was a nice way of doing an NDE documentary, with the scenery etc and I liked the people who were telling the stories. Just genuine ordinary folk describing what happened to them. Nothing to do with being 'bonkers'.

Hi all, I've found this fairly recent (2012 it seems) NDE account, interesting because the woman is a doctor:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0N7tCeqPoqk

She seems honest and pretty moved by her experience, wrote a book about it too or so it seems but I don't think it's for the money. I bet she earns much more from her normal job as doctor than what she makes with book sales. 
Sadly, the OBE description is very short, but she clearly says she witnessed from above CPR going on while being in a sort of "limbo" with other friendly and loving souls

EDIT: sorry, the experience dates back to 1999, as is stated with a more in depth description in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-M9zR17egA

It's orthopaedic surgeon Mary Neal. As to the fact that she's a doctor and therefore arguably a more intrinsically credible witness, it never makes any difference. As soon as any doctor declares they've had an NDE, sceptics accuse them of being unscientific and failing in their duty to write it off as a hallucination.

Just to clarify, there was no reported limbo. She (apparently) was repeatedly travelling down a very beautiful path (she said) to what she described as "heaven". She was also underwater for more than twenty minutes, so her brain must have stopped functioning.
It is an interesting case but because she's told it as it was (or said she did) and also added in religious quotes in her book, it's moved it into the realm of evangelism and that never goes down well (understandably).

It's orthopaedic surgeon Mary Neal. As to the fact that she's a doctor and therefore arguably a more intrinsically credible witness, it never makes any difference. As soon as any doctor declares they've had an NDE, sceptics accuse them of being unscientific and failing in their duty to write it off as a hallucination.

Just to clarify, there was no reported limbo. She (apparently) was repeatedly travelling down a very beautiful path (she said) to what she described as "heaven". She was also underwater for more than twenty minutes, so her brain must have stopped functioning.
It is an interesting case but because she's told it as it was (or said she did) and also added in religious quotes in her book, it's moved it into the realm of evangelism and that never goes down well (understandably).

Yeah she went full "bible NDE" I think, but still better than nothing to have her testimony

Mary Neal does appear in a lot of videos, this is an extract from a longer talk, here she is sitting alongside Dr Sam Parnia and a number of others.


Here is the full video, including varied views from all the participants:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPCvuva2deU

This has been shared previously, but it seems topical in the current discussion.

I laughed out loud when Kevin started bragging about people in CA opening their eyes and rotating pupils, and Sam Parnia went like "WTF?!". I mean, he is right he works with patients in CA every week he would have noticed (or at least his staff and nurses) if somebody's eyes opened. And even for the sake of arguing, in CA you don't have reflexes and if they shine a light in your pupils yet you don't react, how can you see in that condition?

One thing I was thinking about the AWARE II study, is that even should it not report direct hits (although I think one or two are going to be there), it may give extra validation to previous NDEs, in different ways:

1) auditory cues in earphones: if a patient ears conversation or noises but not the cues, it reinforces the idea that the perception came from outside the body, validating Pam's case.
2) Extra hidden targets: even without seeing the ipad images, if somebody reports seeing the portavle EEG attached to their heads it still is some sort of hidden target, as it something you can't explain by previous knowledge or by having seen too much medical dramas on TV.
3) oxygen monitoring: it seems they are monitoring oxygen levels in the brains of patients. If people having NDEs do not have consistently different oxygen levels from those who don't, then anoxya can probably be rulen out
4) constant EEG monitoring: it can prevent ideas like brain surges or spikes from taking hold, like the rat idea. If there are no spikes registered then the source must be found elsewhere. It also would rule out that CPR restored brain function if the EEG stays flat.

In short, there a lot of reasons to be hyped for Parnia's study, not only for the hidden Ipad target.

3) oxygen monitoring: it seems they are monitoring oxygen levels in the brains of patients. If people having NDEs do not have consistently different oxygen levels from those who don't, then anoxya can probably be rulen out

I think this is not quite clear. The question is, what do we mean when we say someone did not have an NDE? I don't know how we can distinguish lack of experience with lack of memory recall.

I think this is not quite clear. The question is, what do we mean when we say someone did not have an NDE? I don't know how we can distinguish lack of experience with lack of memory recall.

We don't know if people don't recall the NDE or don't have it, but oxygen levels being monitored can rule out anoxia as a cause if oxygen levels in NDEers aren't that different from non experiencers.

We don't know if people don't recall the NDE or don't have it, but oxygen levels being monitored can rule out anoxia as a cause if oxygen levels in NDEers aren't that different from non experiencers.

Either I'm not understanding something, or you just repeated yourself. How are you defining "non experiencers"?

Either I'm not understanding something, or you just repeated yourself. How are you defining "non experiencers"?

People not reporting an NDE, why don't know why they don't have it.