Anaesthesia's effect on consciousness solved

https://scitechdaily.com/century-old-sci...ssion=true

Does this impact NDE research at all and the idea that consciousness is not produced by the brain? Or is it referring to 'awareness' consciousness? 

A new study from Scripps Research published Thursday evening in the Proceedings of the National Academies of Sciences (PNAS) solves this longstanding medical mystery. Using modern nanoscale microscopic techniques, plus clever experiments in living cells and fruit flies, the scientists show how clusters of lipids in the cell membrane serve as a missing go-between in a two-part mechanism. Temporary exposure to anesthesia causes the lipid clusters to move from an ordered state, to a disordered one, and then back again, leading to a multitude of subsequent effects that ultimately cause changes in consciousness...

Using Nobel Prize-winning microscopic technology, specifically a microscope called dSTORM, short for “direct stochastical optical reconstruction microscopy,” a post-doctoral researcher in the Hansen lab bathed cells in chloroform and watched something like the opening break shot of a game of billiards. Exposing the cells to chloroform strongly increased the diameter and area of cell membrane lipid clusters called GM1, Hansen explains.

What he was looking at was a shift in the GM1 cluster’s organization, a shift from a tightly packed ball to a disrupted mess, Hansen says. As it grew disordered, GM1 spilled its contents, among them, an enzyme called phospholipase D2 (PLD2).

Tagging PLD2 with a fluorescent chemical, Hansen was able to watch via the dSTORM microscope as PLD2 moved like a billiard ball away from its GM1 home and over to a different, less-preferred lipid cluster called PIP2. This activated key molecules within PIP2 clusters, among them, TREK1 potassium ion channels and their lipid activator, phosphatidic acid (PA). The activation of TREK1 basically freezes neurons’ ability to fire, and thus leads to loss of consciousness, Hansen says...

...Hansen and Lerner say the discoveries raise a host of tantalizing new possibilities that may explain other mysteries of the brain, including the molecular events that lead us to fall asleep...

...“People will begin to study this for everything you can imagine: Sleep, consciousness, all those related disorders,” he (Lerner) says “Ether was a gift that helps us understand the problem of consciousness. It has shined a light on a heretofore unrecognized pathway that the brain has clearly evolved to control higher-order functions.”

I struggle with how unlocking these mechanisms does anything to truly help us understand the nature of consciousness.  The descriptions always seem to be more black box in nature than explanatory; at least in a broad sense of consciousness explained.

I can't see how it says anything about NDEs?

Orch OR might be in trouble though...I am actually curious about Hammeroff's thoughts...

Also it seems Science Daily and SciTech Daily are saying this is the complete solution, something that seems exaggerated? IFLScience article seems less convinced this is a complete explanation:

Scientists May Have Finally Figured Out How General Anesthesia Works

To test their conclusion, the team genetically modified fruit flies to lack PLD2, and found that this made them far less susceptible to the effects of numerous anesthetics. Interestingly, though, massive doses of these compounds did knock the flies out, indicating that PLD2 may not be the only factor at play.

"All flies eventually lost consciousness, suggesting PLD helps set a threshold, but is not the only pathway controlling anesthetic sensitivity," explain the study authors.

Regardless, this finding represents a major step towards solving what study author Richard Lerner calls “the granddaddy of medical mysteries,” and could give you something to ponder the next time you’re staring up from the operating table, counting down from 10 and waiting for the soothing embrace of unconsciousness.

Actually both the Sci Daily publications make note of this in their articles, so it is just even stranger that say something is solved in the headline but mitigate the completeness of the solution in the details.

I can't see how it says anything about NDEs?

Orch OR might be in trouble though...I am actually curious about Hammeroff's thoughts...

I'm referring to if this implies anything about the mind-brain relation and NDEs during anaesthesia. I may be confused but I don't think this has anything to do with 'the self', but conscious awareness. Nevertheless, I won't be surprised if sensationalist journalists misinterpret this study and blow it out of proportion anymore than it already has been.

I'm referring to if this implies anything about the mind-brain relation and NDEs during anaesthesia. I may be confused but I don't think this has anything to do with 'the self', but conscious awareness. Nevertheless, I won't be surprised if sensationalist journalists misinterpret this study and blow it out of proportion anymore than it already has been.

Has anyone on the side of NDEs disproving mind = brain made the argument that anaesthesia doesn't work via biological brain processes?

That would be only type of NDE related argument this research would seem to negate. This research *might* challenge the idea quantum biology is needed to fully explain anesthesia, something discussed here:

https://psiencequest.net/forums/thread-t...=hammeroff

Has anyone on the side of NDEs disproving mind = brain made the argument that anaesthesia doesn't work via biological brain processes?

As an NDE proponent myself, I'm not sure. I think I may have overreacted to the headline and let my death anxiety get the best of me. I was curious as to whether this would be relevant to anaesthesia awareness and how that is (often poorly) compared to NDEs.

https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2020/...2004259117

Checking the actual paper it doesn’t seem to make the claims seen in those headlines (so in other words it’s more clickbait).

The paper doesn’t seem to say anything about consciousness, it just notes (and I’ll quote the last line of the abstract): “Our results establish a membrane-mediated target of inhaled anesthesia and suggest PA helps set thresholds of anesthetic sensitivity in vivo.” It’s about the mechanisms of how anesthesia works and doesn’t actually make any metaphysical statements. And even with the mechanism aspect it isn’t a complete knowledge, as shown by what Sci noted above.

Checking the actual paper it doesn’t seem to make the claims seen in those headlines (so in other words it’s more clickbait).

The paper doesn’t seem to say anything about consciousness, it just notes (and I’ll quote the last line of the abstract): “Our results establish a membrane-mediated target of inhaled anesthesia and suggest PA helps set thresholds of anesthetic sensitivity in vivo.” It’s about the mechanisms of how anesthesia works and doesn’t actually make any metaphysical statements. And even with the mechanism aspect it isn’t a complete knowledge, as shown by what Sci noted above.

I guess there's no suprise there. It is interesting how the articles quote the scientists involved though; they do seem pretty confident in their research's potential from when they're directly quoted despite the unanswered question(s). 


By the way, welcome to the forum (+database) Silver!

I mean scientists are people with opinions, so they probably would have a high opinion of their own work. All I can see coming out of this is an understanding of waking consciousness, since that’s what anesthesia deals with.

And thanks, though I’m probably just gonna be a lurker and not really post (I only made the account cuz I had seen this mentioned elsewhere before).

https://scitechdaily.com/century-old-sci...ssion=true

Does this impact NDE research at all and the idea that consciousness is not produced by the brain? Or is it referring to 'awareness' consciousness? 

Immersing a working TV set in some sort of electrically conductive mist would drastically hamper the operation of its millions of tiny silicon transistors and consequently disrupt the picture and sound. But this certainly wouldn't do anything to disrupt the actual program being displayed by the TV. This sort of research is very sophisticated, but in its significance to the mind-body problem it is no more important than the common observation that alcohol and neural blood clots have varying and sometimes drastic effects on consciousness.