ABC News article rejects "spiritual or magical" characterisation of intuition

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Does intuition really exist and if so, when should we follow it?

By Anna Salleh for the ABC's All in the Mind on 25 February, 2024.

Quote:The Leopold Cafe was among the first targets of a four-day terrorist strike that took place in Mumbai in 2008, ultimately leaving 170 people dead.

When Isla reflects, she can't help but think it was her "intuition" that told her to get out of the cafe fast.

"I think everyone has had [times] where they've just known something without knowing it. And I think that that was one of those times."

But does intuition really exist? What is it exactly, and should we always trust that "sixth sense"?

Good questions. Unfortunately, the possibility of precognition and presentiment underlying at least some instances of intuition or the "sixth sense" is immediately ruled out:

Quote:Some people define intuition as a spiritual or magical phenomenon, but scientists see it as a product of unconscious cognitive processes.

I get most of my news from the ABC, but I'm at least aware of this sort of bias on these sort of matters.

I wonder whether we need a dedicated thread for noting these sort of mainstream articles, because I seem to recall a fair few of them having been posted in the past.
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Dangerous people who want to prey on others often try to get people to doubt their intuitions.

Obviously there are times when said intuitions are rooted in bias and prejudice, but I do think there are times when your sense of danger is - even if seemingly irrational - worth acting on.

I've noted it before but one of my regrets is not listening to a strange sense that I was in danger when at a friend's house, assuming it was just bizarre act of imagination. A hour or so later I was getting carjacked. Sad
'Historically, we may regard materialism as a system of dogma set up to combat orthodox dogma...Accordingly we find that, as ancient orthodoxies disintegrate, materialism more and more gives way to scepticism.'

- Bertrand Russell


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I don't think this is an untirely unfair take to be honest. If there is subtle psi effects that may underpin things like intuition I think it's pretty clear that it's not ALWAYS active. Subconscious explanations for a lot of scenarios makes good sense to. You're sitting at the club, the music puts you on edge, you hear people arguing, your friends are watching something happening, the people there look a bit off, the way the crowd is moving feels wrong. All things you would never pay attention to while you're sitting there drinking but your intuition tells you to go somewhere else and hey look a fight breaks out. 

Very different to something like you're looking at memes on your phone and you think to yourself "Damn, I suddenly feel like ringing Mum", talk to her and then the next day she dies. Now should the article look at stuff like that? Yeah probably, but it's ABC what do you expect.
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True, but the main scenario in the article - leaving a cafe before it gets shot up - seems to fit the second category. How, based solely on subconscious cues in the local environment, is one supposed to intuit the arrival of gunmen from elsewhere? The only resort in this instance of those opposed to "spiritual or magical" characterisations is "coincidence" - which, unsurprisingly, is the resort of this article for this example.
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It's sort of a bait-and-switch: "Here's this spooky example of intuition, but we reject spooky explanations, so here we provide a rational explanation based on subconsc... uh, no, wait, it's just a coincidence. Forget we mentioned intuition. Nothing to see here, folks."
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(2024-03-13, 10:56 AM)Laird Wrote: It's sort of a bait-and-switch: "Here's this spooky example of intuition, but we reject spooky explanations, so here we provide a rational explanation based on subconsc... uh, no, wait, it's just a coincidence. Forget we mentioned intuition. Nothing to see here, folks."

Exactly. Why, when hanging out with a friend, did I feel such an intense feeling of dread?

I am actually willing to say it is *possibly* coincidence, but maybe just intense feelings are still worth listening to just in case they are something more?
'Historically, we may regard materialism as a system of dogma set up to combat orthodox dogma...Accordingly we find that, as ancient orthodoxies disintegrate, materialism more and more gives way to scepticism.'

- Bertrand Russell


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(2024-03-13, 10:46 AM)Laird Wrote: True, but the main scenario in the article - leaving a cafe before it gets shot up - seems to fit the second category. How, based solely on subconscious cues in the local environment, is one supposed to intuit the arrival of gunmen from elsewhere? The only resort in this instance of those opposed to "spiritual or magical" characterisations is "coincidence" - which, unsurprisingly, is the resort of this article for this example.
While saying that intuitive "messages" could be spiritual -- my stance is they are natural Psi.  They represent perception/communication with the ambient environment.  Your use of elsewhere, in italics, tells me you are skeptical of the reality of infospace. The natural functions of information processing that are part of the perceptions of living things MUST be of perception of information structures as reflections of the physical.  Science has a firm handle on their presence in solving equations.

In this thought-experiment the physical/visual/auditory cues do not revel danger.  In fact, the real-world of probability waves has the danger in it in the planning of the criminals.  This is not just isolated mental activity.  Their actual motives are changing the array in probability space.  To directly perceive these perturbations is not part of physical sciences.  Or should it be.

But in terms of pragmatic science - on the other hand - there are real and measurable probability waves that have past/now/future as their "substance", then there is substance and clues to perceive.  Physics has found that using these waves as "substances" gives exacting answers.  In the current environment this model of measurement is acknowledged to be correct, but weird.  In my humble understanding - using probability tools and quantum wave functions is not weird - but exactly how things should be!!!!!!!

People talk of "vibes".  The feelings are real - but the term vibrations represents things physical.  Messages in the mind, like intuition, are based on detection of real-world information - directly.  (see J. J. Gibson for direct perception)  Intuitions and "aha" moments come from without new information from physical clues.  They come from interacting with the environment that contains these wave-like substances in the ambient array of information in an animal's informational environment.
(This post was last modified: 2024-03-14, 03:16 PM by stephenw. Edited 1 time in total.)
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(2024-03-14, 03:08 PM)stephenw Wrote: In fact, the real-world of probability waves has the danger in it in the planning of the criminals.  This is not just isolated mental activity.

I agree that it's not just isolated mental activity. Whether its perceptibility is due to probability waves or psi by some other name (including "spooky", "magical", or "spiritual" weirdness) I couldn't say.
(2024-03-15, 02:51 AM)Laird Wrote: I agree that it's not just isolated mental activity. Whether its perceptibility is due to probability waves or psi by some other name (including "spooky", "magical", or "spiritual" weirdness) I couldn't say.
????

The stark difference between "science's probability tools" and "spooky" is ignored and in the background of your ambivalent answer.  In embracing psi, with an eye toward presenting its case for serious consideration, there is a categorical difference. The category that includes "spooky", "magical", or "spiritual" weirdness is detected by subjective experience. Psi phenomena are important -- just as they are!!  It is a source of data, as well as being infused with deeper meanings.  They are intrinsic to experiential reality and lose much in translation to documents.
 
In direct contrast are events open to objective detection and scientific analysis.  Stochastic tools applied to real-world outcomes address the evolution of motivation and intention in action.  Mind to action is modeled and understood in this field of science.  In this area - there is no doubt about motivations and their behavioral outcomes being caused by mental choices and decisions.  AI feeds on this.  Every consumer is a node to which there is a pattern.

Probability graphing is the primary method for prediction, whether in biology, industrial quality control, human cultural studies and distinctly in QM.

I am reacting to psi being lumped with "spooky"  I personally link Psi with reality, in such a way that science's tools will be able to describe its real-world patterns.

Psi can be both a model-based science event regarding anomalous information transfer --- and spooky to experience.
(This post was last modified: 2024-03-19, 08:07 PM by stephenw. Edited 1 time in total. Edit Reason: grammer )
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(2024-03-19, 04:01 PM)stephenw Wrote: The stark difference between "science's probability tools" and "spooky" is ignored and in the background of your ambivalent answer.

That's simply because I don't have a working theory of psi. You seem to be working from a theory of probability waves which are in some sense directly perceived by the mind and can be studied by science. I'm not convinced that that's the model which explains psi, but you're of course free to explore and advocate for it. I quoted the words "spooky", "magical", and "spiritual" because they are words that are used popularly to describe psi phenomena, but you are right that under a working theory of psi, more scientific terms would be used.
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