A pre-cog dream of my first VR experience?

About a week ago, I had a dream that I remembered very well because of its apparent symbolic significance (which I don't need to go into here). I replayed it over many times in my head and told my wife about it.

Then this past weekend we visited my wife's brother in Austin and a series of events seemed to correspond closely to the dream.

To give a brief synopsis of the dream: I was looking for my wife in this very rich fancy place with many rooms and arched doorways. It was clean and well manicured. Then I walked outside to go get my vehicle in a parking garage and there was concrete and tall buildings everywhere. I went into this parking garage and it was very confusing. Then I was on this single-person self-driving cart that had a mind of its own and was driving me down this railing into the basement of the parking garage where it was very dark, dank, and creepy. There was the soft glow of a fire and a demon-creature eating somebody's limbs.

Then in real life: this past weekend, we went to a brand new Restoration Hardware store that was over 60,000 sq ft with arched doorways and fancy furniture everywhere and I got lost a couple times looking for my wife in there. Outside everything was concrete and tall buildings all around. I went off to go get the vehicle in the parking garage. When we left there we went back to her brother's place where we played this game on Playstation VR called Rush of Blood where you are riding around in a little self-driving cart on a rail that takes you through various dark creepy scenes and you shoot demon-zombie-monsters. It was my first experience with VR.

When I saw the single-person self-driving cart on a rail going through a creepy place I immediately recognized it as being just like my dream and then went back and made the other connections to RH and the parking garage.

I personally don't consider something precognitive unless it's 100% perfectly accurate to what later happens. If it's metaphorical then it needs to be interpreted and if it has to be interpreted it's vulnerable to bias.

I've never had a pre cog dream myself but I have had many, many other pre cog experiences which were of the non ambiguous type.

What you're describing sounds more like it's been pieced together from the same types of elements and sequences. For example, a restoration hardware place and a generic "Rich fancy place with many rooms and archways"

Is there anything about that dream place that specifically connected it to Restoration Hardware let alone that Restoration Hardware? Any logos, cashiers, workers, anything? Because if not then you could've just as easily connected it to any other "rich fancy place with archways". Likewise with the generic "tall buildings" and "concrete".

What specifically about them connected them to the real life experience? Were the tall buildings the same tall buildings in the  same places, or just generic buildings that also happened to be tall?

The rail cart thing is a bit different though since it very well could've been that specific to how the game played and looked, maybe even showing of a specific level. And maybe that one part really was truly precognitive. But at least for me, I don't really buy "symbolic" precognition. It's either the thing, or it's not the thing, that's how I see it.

I'm only picky about it because of the criteria and methodology Dreamsoap and I established for confirming shared dreams which is as strict as we could make it so that we could remove any chance of wishful thinking and general spiritualism ruining possibly good data.

> I personally don't consider something precognitive unless it's 100% perfectly accurate to what later happens. If it's metaphorical then it needs to be interpreted and if it has to be interpreted it's vulnerable to bias.

Why does precognition have to be perfectly accurate? I don't personally believe that this has to be the case. There can be metaphor whose meaning is perfectly clear to the experiencer.

In any case, what term would you personally prefer to use for something that isn't perfectly accurate or involves meaningful symbology, but nevertheless guides the experiencer towards being more aware of certain phenomena?

> I personally don't consider something precognitive unless it's 100% perfectly accurate to what later happens. If it's metaphorical then it needs to be interpreted and if it has to be interpreted it's vulnerable to bias.

Why does precognition have to be perfectly accurate? I don't personally believe that this has to be the case. There can be metaphor whose meaning is perfectly clear to the experiencer.

In any case, what term would you personally prefer to use for something that isn't perfectly accurate or involves meaningful symbology, but nevertheless guides the experiencer towards being more aware of certain phenomena?

Selection Bias? I don't know, that's really broad considering your criteria includes people who start "seeing" the number 7 everywhere because they were told that it's lucky or holy or whatever. I mean you kinda just illustrated my point of why I don't consider metaphors pre cognition.

I guess at best I'd call it psuedo-precognition because clearly it's not that someone's actually thinking or seeing it beforehand. Even though there may still be a legitimate pre cognitive element.

I personally don't consider something precognitive unless it's 100% perfectly accurate to what later happens. If it's metaphorical then it needs to be interpreted and if it has to be interpreted it's vulnerable to bias.

I don't see why a dream can't be a mixture of metaphor and literal?

What you're describing sounds more like it's been pieced together from the same types of elements and sequences. For example, a restoration hardware place and a generic "Rich fancy place with many rooms and archways"

Is there anything about that dream place that specifically connected it to Restoration Hardware let alone that Restoration Hardware? Any logos, cashiers, workers, anything?

No.

Because if not then you could've just as easily connected it to any other "rich fancy place with archways". Likewise with the generic "tall buildings" and "concrete".

What specifically about them connected them to the real life experience? Were the tall buildings the same tall buildings in the  same places, or just generic buildings that also happened to be tall?

The feeling was the same in the dream as in this RH store. We had been to several RH stores before, but this RH in the Domain in Austin was by far the largest and fanciest I'd ever been to. It had 4 floors and over 60,000 square feet with a high ceiling in the center with stair cases and balcony. There was the strong arch element and in my dream I remember looking left and right and seeing more rooms with fancy furniture and that is how this RH store was laid out.

Regarding the concrete, I made a remark specifically about the concrete as we walked into the RH store that "it is just concrete, but RH even somehow makes the concrete look chic and fancy."

The buildings in my dream and the buildings IRL were about the same size and height - maybe 5-10 stories. Again, I'm sure it wasn't exactly the same scene in my dream as IRL, but the same feeling was created.

The rail cart thing is a bit different though since it very well could've been that specific to how the game played and looked, maybe even showing of a specific level. And maybe that one part really was truly precognitive. But at least for me, I don't really buy "symbolic" precognition. It's either the thing, or it's not the thing, that's how I see it.

I'm only picky about it because of the criteria and methodology Dreamsoap and I established for confirming shared dreams which is as strict as we could make it so that we could remove any chance of wishful thinking and general spiritualism ruining possibly good data.

Again, I'm not sure why it has to be either/or unless you're just trying to have a rigorous standard for some reason. I had a pre-cog dream in college that was very literal in some ways and very symbolic in others. I feel very confident in saying it was a pre-cog dream for several reasons... I prayed for a meaningful dream before I went to bed, I woke up laughing at how silly I thought the dream was and I thought there was no way it could mean anything... I told the dream to a couple people that day... the dream was about a girl complaining about a guy named Jim who she claimed made a pass at her, but in reality she made a pass at him and he rejected her and she was trying to turn things around and claim to be the victim of discrimination. All that happened later that same day: a female acquaintance wanted to go out to dinner with me and the whole time she complained about her drama with another mutual acquaintance named Jim and Jim liked her, but she didn't like him, but now he didn't want to hang out with her because some other people had warned him about her... She went on about this drama for like an hour and I got so tired of hearing it I tried to change the subject so I randomly thought to start telling her about my silly dream, and then I started laughing because I realized it was exactly what was happening right then. There was a symbolic element in the dream in that she was black, but I knew in the dream that she wasn't actually a black person, she was taking a pill to change her appearance and make herself black and then claiming discrimination. In the same way this girl wasn't really the victim, but she was trying to make herself appear to be so.

Selection Bias? I don't know, that's really broad considering your criteria includes people who start "seeing" the number 7 everywhere because they were told that it's lucky or holy or whatever. I mean you kinda just illustrated my point of why I don't consider metaphors pre cognition.

I don't refer to that kind of metaphor ~ symbols can be pre-cognitive, I dare say. Why can they not be? I've never seen a good answer as why they cannot be.

For you metaphors don't work, perhaps. But for others, they may be the most common element of their pre-cognition.

I guess at best I'd call it psuedo-precognition because clearly it's not that someone's actually thinking or seeing it beforehand. Even though there may still be a legitimate pre cognitive element.

Just because someone hasn't literally seen it beforehand, does not make it invalid.

It's like psychic abilities, perhaps ~ some specialize in clairvoyance, others clairaudience, clairsensitivity, psychometry, mediumship, general intuition, etc.

So, it's a bit arrogant, I feel, to claim that pre-cognition cannot manifest through symbols, given the range of psychic specialties, just because it's not what works for you.

I don't see why a dream can't be a mixture of metaphor and literal?

A dream can be whatever but if you're going to believe that you knew something before it happened does that make sense when it all had to be interpreted into existence after the fact rather than reacted on in the moment because you already had the pre knowledge to react to?

No.

Well then how can you say it was pre cognition of that hardware store when It could just as easily be any other place that has those features.

The feeling was the same in the dream as in this RH store. We had been to several RH stores before, but this RH in the Domain in Austin was by far the largest and fanciest I'd ever been to. It had 4 floors and over 60,000 square feet with a high ceiling in the center with stair cases and balcony. There was the strong arch element and in my dream I remember looking left and right and seeing more rooms with fancy furniture and that is how this RH store was laid out.

Well I suppose the feeling is something but that's pretty weak if that's all there really is.

Regarding the concrete, I made a remark specifically about the concrete as we walked into the RH store that "it is just concrete, but RH even somehow makes the concrete look chic and fancy."

The buildings in my dream and the buildings IRL were about the same size and height - maybe 5-10 stories. Again, I'm sure it wasn't exactly the same scene in my dream as IRL, but the same feeling was created.

I suppose if it's similar enough to account for any memory fading and such then yeah that's probably more than just metaphor.

Again, I'm not sure why it has to be either/or unless you're just trying to have a rigorous standard for some reason.

I've heard lots of people claim of dream symbols turning into real life things on the internet, it usually goes something like this:

"I had a dream of a dark cloud and now I'm scared that something bad is gong to happen because dark clouds are bad omens". 
[They spill their coffee during the day]
"Oh wow I thought something bad would happen because of my dream and it did! I must be psychic!"

It helps to have some  standards so you're not just kidding yourself. My rigour, which admittedly isn't perfect, helps me have stronger, more accurate experiences more often.

I had a pre-cog dream in college that was very literal in some ways and very symbolic in others. I feel very confident in saying it was a pre-cog dream for several reasons... I prayed for a meaningful dream before I went to bed, I woke up laughing at how silly I thought the dream was and I thought there was no way it could mean anything... I told the dream to a couple people that day... the dream was about a girl complaining about a guy named Jim who she claimed made a pass at her, but in reality she made a pass at him and he rejected her and she was trying to turn things around and claim to be the victim of discrimination. All that happened later that same day: a female acquaintance wanted to go out to dinner with me and the whole time she complained about her drama with another mutual acquaintance named Jim and Jim liked her, but she didn't like him, but now he didn't want to hang out with her because some other people had warned him about her... She went on about this drama for like an hour and I got so tired of hearing it I tried to change the subject so I randomly thought to start telling her about my silly dream, and then I started laughing because I realized it was exactly what was happening right then. There was a symbolic element in the dream in that she was black, but I knew in the dream that she wasn't actually a black person, she was taking a pill to change her appearance and make herself black and then claiming discrimination. In the same way this girl wasn't really the victim, but she was trying to make herself appear to be so.

That one sounds a lot more solid.

By the way, here's what I'd consider a solid precognitive experience:

So one day I was playing a game called Dino Crisis 2, never played it before, never watched anything about it before. I'm walking through one corridor of this facility when I remember a vision I had of this exact corridor. In the the player avatar walked down the corridor and at a certain part a large blue dinosaur busts through the wall and hits them.  I went with the vision to see what would happen and was able to avoid the cheap hit. There were no metaphors, there were no symbols, there was the exact scene, the exact camera angle, the exact player avatar, the exact jump and wall break animation, The only difference was that "this time" I knew it was coming and I shot it as it leapt through the wall instead of getting sideswiped like in the vision. That's what counts as legitimate pre cognition to me.

And for contrast here's another I had that doesn't make the cut:

A dream I had where I went to go handwash dishes. There was a box of powder beside the sink which was labelled as dish soap. I put on some rubber gloves and if I remember correctly I start washing dishes. I hear this faint crackling noise coming from the cupboard but I can't figure out what it is. Then I notice one of the dishes int he sink is getting a hole eaten right through it. I think I suspected it might be the powder at that point. I notice that one of my gloves is sticking to a part of my hand. I pour water over it trying to rinse off any of the powder but that makes it worse. I realize that it probably reacts with water. I get the glove off my hand but the acid is slowly eating through it

I freak out and tell Dreamsoap about it and to read the box for any information on what the hell it even is. I show my mom my hand who's skin has been melted through exposing the muscle around the thumb area on the back and front, some of the skin has separated from the muscle as it's melting through underneath making the now loose skin blister. She goes to touch it and I snap at her not to touch it

She gets annoyed at me saying I didn't need to swear or be rude or whatever. I tell her to shut up and call poison control. She's annoyed at my "attitude" and leaves. Eventually returning on the phone, we coordinatete with them to find out what the specific chemicals are and the tell us some specific counter mix to pour on it to neutralize it. I wake up thinking there's no way my mom would be so stupid she'd put her own personal offendedness above someone elses physical safety. Because I know that my dreams sometimes greatly exaggerate some personality traits in other people. Making them act in ways in dreams that they would never actually act. There are many examples of this.


Now here's what happened the very next evening:

Dreamsoap and I are watching a friends dog at my family's house during the winter. It's little terrier of some type. At one point we hear him faintly whining from what sounds like the outside. Neither of us remember sending him outside. We freak out a bit when we can't find him in the house. It's night time and I'm blind so I try to get a flashlight from my dad to help Dreamsoap search outside. At one point my mom shows up and I'm flustered and she has almost exactly the same reaction she had in my dream the night before. Getting all offended that I said a "bad word" instead of helping search for a dog we don't even own that might be injured or in danger. I react extra badly to this because of the dream the night before and my belief that there's no way she'd be that dumb. In the end my mom found the dog upstairs. It got itself locked in a bedroom. the faint whining was coming through the vent in the basement which distorted it and made it sound like it was coming from outside.

Now you could argue that that dream was pre cognitive. I mean there was a crisis that you could metaphorically say that I perceived was as bad as the one in the dream and then it got resolved partly by my mom calling poison control which could symbolize my mom finding the dog. And it had the same sequence of events where something bad happened, we freaked out a bit, my mom acted dumb, and then things resolve. 

But that's the point, you'd have to argue for it, it wasn't really there. It  would all be metaphors and symbols and feelings and other nonesense that I'd have to invent in my own mind in order to make a connection that isn't really there. The only thing that was almost literal was my moms reaction. But it doesn't matter because I can easily think of dozens of other dreams with similarly extreme reactions that have no coorelation to the real world. One out of a hundred "going live" is a coincidence, not a premonition. ergo, it's not a pre cognitive experience.

I don't refer to that kind of metaphor ~ symbols can be pre-cognitive, I dare say. Why can they not be? I've never seen a good answer as why they cannot be.

For you metaphors don't work, perhaps. But for others, they may be the most common element of their pre-cognition.

Whereas I doubt it's really pre cognition if they're piecing it together after the fact.

Just because someone hasn't literally seen it beforehand, does not make it invalid.

It's like psychic abilities, perhaps ~ some specialize in clairvoyance, others clairaudience, clairsensitivity, psychometry, mediumship, general intuition, etc. 

If I go to a psychic (which I have) and the best they can do is tell me metaphors and symbols that I then have to twist around in my mind to make into something cohesive, they're not a psychic. If they say they hear someone, I expect the actual words, sentences and paragraphs, not a generic message. If they say they see someone I expect a specific, detailed physical description, not vagueries.

So, it's a bit arrogant, I feel, to claim that pre-cognition cannot manifest through symbols, given the range of psychic specialties, just because it's not what works for you.

Is it arrogant or is it thorough?

Hurm, your dream sounds to me pretty much completely accurate. Maybe I'm using a different frame of reference apparently to others.

In my experience, dreams express themselves in a language we can understand. That means making use of components with which we are already familiar. The word 'component' can cover a wide range of ideas, from physical things which exist in our world, or shapes and relationships between them, as for example in a painting as a piece of abstract art, without necessarily representing any actual object. Then there are the use of words. I'm often amused by the ingenuity of the visual or theatrical puns in my dreams, whereby a word or phrase is never actually verbalised in the dream, but is acted out in some way.

I'll give just one quick example of a dream I had - years ago now. Nothing profound or dramatic. In the dream I found myself in a familiar type of landscape, with beautiful green hills. The place I would have in mind was far inland, a long way from the sea. But in the dream, the sea was present, those big hills were right by the sea. I wasn't until some time later that I visited the English Lake District - which is known for its grand landscapes of hills and lakes, that the dream made sense. The water wasn't the sea after all, but the dream was making use of a concept with which I was familiar. (This is a fairly sparse retelling, I don't clearly remember the original dream, except in outline, as it was many years ago now).

I'm not saying it's nothing but come on, you guys can see why I'm kinda laughing about things like this right?

"Hey I had this experience and, come to think of it, it's kinda like this dream I had awhile ago. Wow, it was precognitive!"

Yeah its such solid pre knowledge that you didn't even know you knew it until after the fact. Thinking back on things and realizing they were similar, that's the definition of pre cognition right? Not, y'know, hindsight?

I mean, I guess the "pre" in pre cognition could be symbolic for "looking back" which means pre cognition could metaphorically mean "thinking about something that happened in the past". Oh wow, if I think about it that way, it totally makes sense!

In any case, if it's fun for you, that's all that really matters.