Penrose got the Nobel for his physics work, not Orch-OR.
Churchland is a materialist fanatic, a philosopher who was even criticized by the actual (immaterialist) neuroscientist Raymond Tallis. She’s the one who got destroyed in her interview with Alex on Skeptiko, so badly IIRC she “ran away” by hanging up and then claimed she’d been sand-bagged.
I do see [value in] your argument that Orch-OR is an epicycle of sorts, as I also agree that nothing in the movement of physical stuff can produce consciousness. Nevertheless, there does seem to be a relationship between structure and consciousness, specifically the structure of our brains at minimum.
Given the current prevailing materialist belief is that consciousness will be shown to be produced at the classical level, and this then can be used as an argument against Psi & Survival, I do think that even showing the correlates are “below” the neuronal and go down to the quantum would benefit proponents immensely.
Honestly not sure. I feel like the way he speaks about it gets a bit confusing if not contradictory.
Churchland is a materialist fanatic, a philosopher who was even criticized by the actual (immaterialist) neuroscientist Raymond Tallis. She’s the one who got destroyed in her interview with Alex on Skeptiko, so badly IIRC she “ran away” by hanging up and then claimed she’d been sand-bagged.
I do see [value in] your argument that Orch-OR is an epicycle of sorts, as I also agree that nothing in the movement of physical stuff can produce consciousness. Nevertheless, there does seem to be a relationship between structure and consciousness, specifically the structure of our brains at minimum.
Given the current prevailing materialist belief is that consciousness will be shown to be produced at the classical level, and this then can be used as an argument against Psi & Survival, I do think that even showing the correlates are “below” the neuronal and go down to the quantum would benefit proponents immensely.
(2024-08-28, 04:43 AM)Jim_Smith Wrote: When Hameroff says consciousness is pervading the universe doesn't he mean it is pervading the universe because it is created by wave functions collapsing throughout the universe?
Honestly not sure. I feel like the way he speaks about it gets a bit confusing if not contradictory.
'Historically, we may regard materialism as a system of dogma set up to combat orthodox dogma...Accordingly we find that, as ancient orthodoxies disintegrate, materialism more and more gives way to scepticism.'
- Bertrand Russell
(This post was last modified: 2024-08-28, 06:09 AM by Sciborg_S_Patel. Edited 3 times in total.)
- Bertrand Russell
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