(2021-07-22, 10:36 AM)Laird Wrote: Do you think there is any way to "get behind the mask" in either case? If so, how might we go about that? Do you think we might try to correlate people's religious/spiritual/metaphysical beliefs with the forms in which metaphysical agents present to those people?Hey Laird
In that case: why the need for relative secrecy? Why not just let humans openly know: we are here, and we are here to uplift you?
Agreed, although I have not read much Jung directly, so am mostly relying on secondhand reports.
Do you think there is any way to "get behind the mask" in either case? If so, how might we go about that? Do you think we might try to correlate people's religious/spiritual/metaphysical beliefs with the forms in which metaphysical agents present to those people?
I think getting 'behind the mask' is complex and difficult. There do not seem to be easy answers. There's probably a good reason for this - I don't think the 'answer' fits into any rational frame we currently have.
For me there is an absolute correlation between beliefs and how metaphysical agents present to us. The higher level ones do not have form that is meaningful to us, so we hunt for analogies [and our brains fill in gaps with whole pictures]. Ancient traditions have 'gods' as sometimes terrifying and dangerous not because they are inherently that way, but because direct exposure can be harmful. I can tell you from direct experience that encountering a high level agent is a perilous affair. It is necessary to have filters or a 'step down transformer' that takes the pressure down. This is usually via intermediaries - referred to as 'messengers' [from which we derive the word 'angel'].
Strieber's accounts confirm this perspective.
In that case: why the need for relative secrecy? Why not just let humans openly know: we are here, and we are here to uplift you?
Being 'uplifted' is a matter of choice. And then there is the problem of human reaction - one need look only at the way Trump is regarded as 'saviour' among the Christian right in the USA. The way I see it it is very much a case of 'those who have ears to hear and eyes to see.' That is to say that 'help' may actually be in plain sight, but unseen. There are those who have conscious engagement with metaphysical agents and the many more who may have unconscious connection. The need for conscious engagement is not always apparent.
For example Christianity arguably deviated from the essential message of Jesus when 'the faithful' developed a desire for conscious connection - which became the 'Church', with all its problematic attributes. A deeper, more mystical approach seems to provide fidelity with the core themes. So maybe being responsive to intuitions is considered a better way for most.
So, do metaphysical agents work through existing belief systems [including those which effectively exclude 'are revelations - the Abrahamic faiths], or do they create mayhem by exciting new targets for belief and craziness? I can imagine there is reason to deepen mystical expressions of some faiths so as to get beyond dogma and theology. But doing that with other faiths may trigger a reaction of fear and loathing by those who will find 'new revelations' to be harmful to their status, power and wealth. I can imagine US televangelists denouncing ET as the spawn of Satan and demanding urgent donations to help them defend the faithful.
Engagement with obvious agents or symbols leads to problems with focus on key messages. Eg a lot of 'abductees' report developing awareness of environmental concerns, which, once triggered seem to be sustainable. As I say. It is complex.
I think Jung was a great thinker who advanced our understanding of human psychology. But he was not infallible - as he himself acknowledged. I think he'd have a different take on the metaphysical now.
Ultimately I think the big challenge is that of connecting with rational and sceptical folk who have abandoned faith and acceptance of the metaphysical. Religions have run their course simply because the evolving human mentality demands a different set of propositions - ones based on 'reason'.
How do we engage with those who deny responsibility for being in the world, and who have the power to continue to do harmful things? Maybe that's what the present up tick in UFO sightings is about - going via US military with the tech to end BS claims about balloons and swamp gas. How better to grab the attention of a mind mired in materialism than demonstrate tech that knocks their socks off.
The recent US report has been largely ignored in the public domain, but that does not mean there are not a bunch of conversations going on off stage. To me the media is a good signaller of what can be talked about, but not any indication of interest - because that's not how to keep attention. Also I suspect the capacity for conversation is limited because the idea that ET is real will be novel to many.