Psience Quest

I found out an interesting bit of info yesterday: my friend from Manchester had a horrific car accident 20 years ago. She flatlined in the hospital, and next thing she knew, she was observing the room from above, seeing herself and her family members, personnel, hearing them talk, etc. Eventually she told her mother where everybody was and what they were doing or saying. Her mom was incredulous, saying "you couldn't see uncle Bob from your bed, he was behind the curtain". Note: she flatlined during this event, nevertheless she 1) saw everybody from above, including people she couldn't possibly see from her bed, even in a completely improbable case she was awake, and 2) she overheard every word uttered in the room while she was in cardiac arrest. She told me the story for the first time yesterday; amazingly, she had never heard of NDE's or OBE's, so, when I told her that her episode was a common phenomenon called OBE she was stunned... I wonder how many of these phenomenons stay undiscovered, because the people who experience them wouldn't tell anhyone or would be contacted by researchers.

This is a well presented, very informative interview with Dr Pim Van Lommel (probably at his home) featuring some personal testimonies to illustrate some of the points he's making.

The testimony of the first person, Magdalena, I personally find very compelling not only with the surprise and sincerity of it but the fact that this occurred at the time she lost her unborn child (which is obviously devastating)   

At 11.30, it was also interesting to see that she consulted a professor at the hospital about her experience but clearly was not impressed with what she heard. The sceptics on here might like to consider that if indeed that professor was offering her the routine 'brain based' explanations, why do these people never find it satisfactory ? As Peter Fenwick has said before, "They know it's not the right explanation."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fi1OfyS14VE

For English speakers, the makers have kindly provided subtitles.

From http://www.skeptiko-forum.com/threads/ee...ost-121488

Jim_Smith, post: 121488, member: 519 Wrote:http://www.skeptiko.com/172-melvin-morse...-accounts/

Quote:Dr. Melvin Morse: So by chance or coincidence or fate or whatever, I happened to be in Pocatello, Idaho and there was a child there who had drowned in a community swimming pool. She was documented to be under water for at least 17 minutes. It just so happened that a pediatrician was in the locker room at the same community swimming pool and he attempted to revive her on the spot. His intervention probably saved her life but again, he documented that she had no spontaneous heartbeat for I would say at least 45 minutes, until she arrived at the emergency room. Then our team got there.

She was really dead. All this debate over how close do these patients come to death, etc., you know, Alex, I had the privilege of resuscitating my own patients and she was, for all intents and purposes, dead. In fact, I had told her parents that. I said that it was time for them to say goodbye to her. This was a very deeply religious Mormon family. They actually did. They crowded around the bedside and held hands and prayed for her and such as that. She was then transported to Salt Lake City. She lived. She not only lived but three days later she made a full recovery.

Alex Tsakiris: And what did she tell you…

Dr. Melvin Morse: Her first words, the first words she said when she came out of her coma, she turned to the nurse down at Primary Children’s in Salt Lake City. She says, “Where are my friends?” And then they’d say, “What do you mean, where are your friends?” She’d say, “Yeah, all the people that I met in Heaven. Where are they?” [Laughs]

The innocence of a child. So I saw her in follow-up, another one of these odd twists of fate. I happened to be in addition doing my residency and just happened to be working in the same community clinic in that area. My jaw just dropped to the floor when she and her mother walked in. I was like, “What?” I had not even heard that she had lived. I had assumed that she had died. She looked at me and she said to her mother, “There’s the man that put a tube down my nose.” [Laughs]

Alex Tsakiris: What are you thinking at that point when she says that?

Dr. Melvin Morse: You know, it’s one of those things—I laughed. I sort of giggled the way a teenager would giggle about sex. It was just embarrassing. I didn’t know what to think. Certainly, I’d trained at Johns Hopkins. I thought when you died you died. I said, “What do you mean, you saw me put a tube in your nose?”

She said, “Oh, yeah. I saw you take me into another room that looked like a doughnut.”

She said things like, “You called someone on the phone and you asked, ‘What am I supposed to do next?’”

She described the nurses talking about a cat who had died. One of the nurses had a cat that had died and it was just an incidental conversation. She said she was floating out of her body during this entire time. I just sort of laughed. And then she taps me on the wrist. You’ve got to hear this, Alex.

After I laughed she taps me on the wrist and she says, “You’ll see, Dr. Morse. Heaven is fun.” [Laughs] I was completely blown away by the entire experience. I immediately determined that I would figure out what was going on here. This was in complete defiance of everything I had been taught in terms of medicine.

Another German NDE with subtitles. Very interesting, multiple out of body/near death experience after a motor cycle head on collision. This one includes an OBE during the emergency helicopter ride to the hospital, where he felt himself to be outside of the aircraft, looking back at his body and also at the landscape of the Black Forrest countryside below.

This occurred again as he arrived at the hospital on the helipad (when he was dead) and finally in the operating room where he was able to observe events and read the thoughts of the doctors (they were not vocalised) which he later was able to verify (apparently)  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xn_B8dFlgAQ

[Edited by an admin to a reasonably-sized extract. For the full report, click on the link]

Near Death Experiences in China - A Study of Survivors of the Tangshan Earthquake by Li Ying, published on June 11, 2002 on minghui.org.

Quote:(Clearwisdom.net) On July 28, 1976, the monstrous Tangshan earthquake caused more than 240,000 fatalities and 160,000 serious injuries. Medical workers in China did case studies on the survivors, most of whom had been buried under the rubble of collapsed buildings.

According to their recollections, more than half of the survivors reported that during the time they were in danger, not only were they not afraid, on the contrary, their minds were clear, calm and comfortable. In such a dangerous situation, there was no panic; some people even had feelings of happiness and thoughts running rapidly through their minds.

Many different thoughts came up. At this moment, things that had happened in their earlier lives kept flashing back like a movie and the scenes were mostly happy ones. The recollections were of such things as funny moments during childhood, wedding ceremonies, and achievements and awards from work. This phenomenon is called life retrospection or "full-scale recollection."

Even stranger, close to half of the people had the feeling and awareness that their consciousness or soul had left their bodies. Some of the people equated this with "the soul coming out from the shell." They stressed that they had felt their supernormal capabilities were in another dimension outside their bodies, and not inside their brains. They thought that their physical bodies neither had these abilities nor the ability to think.

I noticed this set of comments posted on the You Tube Sam Parnia interview "Researchers say there's evidence that consciousness continues after clinical death."  His initial comment attracts the inevitable responses and he deals/answers them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnoIf2Nw...pp=desktop

I think it's quite obvious that his experience is authentic and I found it very interesting. I haven't asked the guy if it's okay to post them (I will) but if anyone (moderators) thinks there is an issue here, let me know and I'll delete them forthwith. 

1. In 2013 I died suddenly. I had consciousness throughout the experience, but no sensation. I don't know how long I was dead because my wife found me on the floor. I didn't return, until after the paramedics arrived. When I returned, I experienced a peacefulness like I've never experienced before. In fact, it was so intense, I didn't want to come back. My wife told me I had a heart attack.

At this time, shortly after returning to life, I was comfortable with dying and asked to say goodbye to my children. I gradually became more aware of my surroundings and got up off the floor on my own. As the doctor explained, my experience took away my fear of death; changed my belief system; made me more compassionate toward others; and more at peace with myself. I am so happy that I came across this video because it lets me know that my experience isn't an anomaly.

 2. I didn't see my body, and at no point did I see one. I didn't float into the sky or anything like that either. I was in total darkness, and I had no sensation; thoughts; or memories. I only observed darkness. I didn't feel a body; I wasn't walking around; I wasn't floating; I was wherever "there" is. I had no sense of time, but I remember seeing a burst of light, and once I saw the light, I found myself surrounded by it. It was at this point I began experiencing some sensation of sight and sound. visual things drew my attention, but I never identified with them. I didn't say to myself, "The grass is green." I only observed. I also observed trees and the blue sky.

I heard children laughing, and as my attention focused more on them, I saw them chasing one another. I also saw a woman sitting on the grass, but I never identified with either of them. I never made contact either. I became distracted by a voice, which seemed to be coming from the sky. It was faintly heard, and after I experienced it a few times, I suddenly found myself back in the darkness and returning to life very gradually. it was in super slow motion and in layers. Once I reached a particular point or layer, it was like supersonic; I came back to life! I knew I had died, and I believed I was going to die again, but I was totally comfortable with it, because of the love and peacefulness that came with it. It was an amazing experience, and there are no words to describe it. Today, I suffer from memory loss.

My short term memory is really bad. There are also things that I've done months or years ago that I have no recollection of. It's a very weird experience to not remember events in your life, which you've participated in, but have no memory of doing. I used to be afraid of dying, but today, I have no fear, because I know I will once again experience that unconditional love and find myself in a place where there is no fear, pain, or suffering. A place where the children are chasing one another and laughing. 

 3. arieshema, you've said it best: "I felt detached, like watching a movie, no emotion, no feeling, no confusion, nothing." This is what I tried to explain in a previous reply to X Savage. I came from a Christian upbringing, so I am not trying to offend anyone, but the "God" I experienced was the peace and love, which existed in the nothingness. Due to my experience, my belief is now similar to yours: We are "not this body." Thank you for sharring your story.

4. Ron Higgins, YES! Thank you... I agree... Have you seen that movie "Close Encounters of the Third Kind?" There's this scene where Richard Dreyfuss is trying to recreate this image he sees in his mind's eye, using mash potatoes? I know this is a silly analogy to use, but my experience is like that, when trying to explain it to people. My experience has changed my whole belief system. I don't focus on "Religion" anymore. I have moved away from it. I seek my own inner peace. My belief is more edgy and upsets challenges my family and friends, who are still within the fundamental religious circles. I may differ on a few of your opinions, but I agree we are watching the same ball game. I will look into the book "Merging with Siva." Thank you for your comment

5. Sam, thank you for trusting in my opinion, but I can only speak of what I personally experienced. I believe your brother heard you. I heard my wife after I moved from darkness and into the light. I gave X Savage a full description of my experience, so if you can't find it, please say and I'll post it again for you, but a brief synopsis is that before I transitioned from the darkness and into the light, I heard nothing. It was like going into a room sealed off from light and sound and staring into the darkness. Also, take away any memory or thoughts, and sensory stimulation and you'll an idea of what I partially experienced. After I transitioned into a burst of light, I only experienced sight and sound; therefore, I almost immediately heard my wife yelling my name, but I didn't know it was she, and I didn't know it was my name. It only drew my attention, but I gave it no thought because I had no thought.

Please, keep in mind, I returned to life, so who knows what happens beyond the level I experienced. Due to my experience, I believe all memories of this world will be lost forever. I understand you love and miss your brother, and I am very sorry for your loss. I believe he heard you, and have comfort in knowing, where he is, he wouldn't trade it for anything, including a second chance at life, because where he is, we'll all be eventually, and I am here to attest, the peace and love we'll experience is beyond words.

6. CODEX, before hand? I was raised fundamental Pentecostal. My sudden cardiac arrest happened when I was 46-years old. I practiced my faith up until then; sometimes more aggressively than others, but I stayed within the circle; albeit on the edge more than in the centre. After my experience, I began searching for more and looked into other faiths, including Buddhism and Hinduism. I settled for my own divine faith, which is a combination of the three, but I do not take the Bible to be literal anymore. My faith is what the God within shows me. I will say, I am closer to "God" than I ever was.

7. Tombapilot04, I have many friends who are LDS, and they are very good people. I am not or have been LDS. I just wanted to throw that out there. However, I did die suddenly. On the day I died, I woke up feeling great! I was in excellent shape, I exercised every day and was physically fit. I did some work around the house and at around 2 p.m. I began to feel sick. It progressively got worse and by 6 p.m. I couldn't walk without severe pain radiating throughout my whole body. I laid down and slept until 8 p.m. I got up to get a drink of water, started feeling like I was going to throw up, and that was it.

I try to explain it the best I can, but I agree, it's never going to be exact because it's utterly impossible for me to explain my experience to someone who never experienced it themselves. In death, I had no senses, until I moved from darkness to light, and even then, I only sensed sight and sound. I can't tell you if there was a breeze and the aroma of flowers filled the morning air with a pleasing scent. I only observed with vision and hearing, and when it was all over with, and I returned to my body, there was unbound peace; the likes I have never experienced before. I am not asking anyone to believe me. I am giving my experience, and you may have a different one. I am only sharing it because I share the same experience as the doctor in the video expressed and many others have shared here on this post. I have nothing to gain or lose.

This is an interesting report. Fabienne Dercel from Belgium - who had an NDE when she was 12 years old. There's the out of body experience, moving through walls, attempted/failed communication and interaction with her parents, ability to read their minds, passage through a hellish region, connection with the light etc.

What I found particularly interesting was that she says @4.12 "each one had a particular sound." If she means the "beings" she saw, then this resonates with what Pam Reynolds related. I see them as clues or pieces of a puzzle that's becoming clearer or more consistent. Not everyone will agree of course. I would add that the negative part of her experience is troubling and yet for those who may prefer to believe she made the whole thing up, is it likely that she would confabulate that ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpTuD__x13M

This French man, Jacques Saunier, had his NDE in rather bizarre circumstances. He apparently witnessed a Rottweiler dog attacking two smaller dogs, one of which was reportedly killed. The owner of the smaller dogs was also injured in the attack. The owner (of the Rottweiler) tried to escape and Jacques jumped on a bicycle to chase him, before unfortunately colliding with a scooter and crashing hard into the ground, which put him in a coma.

During his NDE he reports meeting up with a dead Uncle who'd been shot by the Nazi's many decades ago and also saw his wife's dead Grandmother, whom he'd never met. It seems when he decided he didn't want to come back to earth, they (the relatives) 'pushed' him back into his body.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlmLbnMyVU0

[To eliminate confusion after moving this post to the commentary thread, the immediately above post to which tim refers in the first sentence below ("NDE caused by head/injury/coma") is this one --Laird]

Connecting up with the theme above (NDE caused by a head injury/coma). This study from China found the incidence of NDE to be lower than that reported in survivors of cardiac arrest.

"Infrequent near death experiences in severe brain injury survivors - A quantitative and qualitative study"

Our present study was aimed at collecting this valuable information from survivors of severe head injury after a prolonged coma. The study was conducted in the head injury department of Guangdong 999 Brain hospital, Guangzhou, China.

Only three patients had clearly recognisable NDE narratives. One of them had a negative NDE and interestingly reveals that he thought he was being 'punished for his wrongs.'  We obviously can't draw that conclusion, though.  

Individual differences in opinions about death

The second subject who had the 3-D light experience on the other hand opined that death is the end of material life: "You know, the more I think of it, it makes me think that death actually takes everything away from you and gives you a whole new identity.
It's like….you don't die exactly. But you do die in terms of materialism. Your body dies….your sense of having body dies…your all materialistic possessions die….You actually die… and then, there is a completely new you. I don't know if it's after-life…or just a big vacuum up there. But there is for sure, I….I….just can't explain it."

It's worth a look for those interested in this subject and you can actually "click" on the small pictures to enlarge them. I bet you're thrilled about that, Malf.

 http://www.annalsofian.org/article.asp?i...aulast=Hou

Hou Y, Huang Q, Prakash R, Chaudhury S. Infrequent near death experiences in severe brain injury survivors - A quantitative and qualitative study. Ann Indian Acad Neurol 2013;16:75-81

NB* Apologies if I've already posted this somewhere. Don't think I have but I wouldn't bet against it.

This is the OBE (during an in hospital cardiac arrest) of Robert O. He very kindly gave me these details when I wrote to him (emailed) quite a few months back. He subsequently gave me permission to post it.  Robert was very seriously ill and I do not know, unfortunately, whether he is still with us, or not.

Several of the "veridical" OBE events were confirmed with medical staff members within the first week....and one of the nurses was pretty freaked out by it...but one (a senior nurse) had seen it happen before (from previous Code Blue patients) over the years.
Because my Code Blue had occurred two days after the surgery.....I was no longer in the ICU/CCU section (on the 1st floor of this 8 floor hospital) - and had been transported to the 4th floor (Rm 421B) - which also has a CCU section - but not as aggressive or heavily monitored like the primary ICU section is....although in early recovery stage from a majorly invasive surgery....my system - by all medical means - appeared to be doing as good - if not better - then as expected -

Vitals were all strong....and I was very alert and responsive - so the decision was made to transport me to the 4th floor and free up another ICU room - a common goal of all hospitals - especially one as busy as this one (fortunately..on the 4th floor....I still had EEG monitoring and oxygen monitors - which triggered the warning alarms and initiated the steps for the "Code Blue" broadcast.

And as my room was straight across from the nurses station - emergency response was rapid - take ANY one of those criteria out of this picture and I might not be here typing this.  To the best of my ability (again time and sequence has been hard to analyze for me...) I first saw things from above minutes before the coding.....at that point...I was already under breathing assistance with poor respiration drive and my system was undergoing hypotension - I was still listed as alert on the CPR record and could hear and feel all the commotion around me.....

Then things took a real bad turn and I remember a brief period of not sensing anything.....blood pressure dropped rapidly...heat beat was now sporadic and I was now being paced. Then - I heard a soft...but firm voice say " Doctor - We're losing him..." (now known to be Nurse K* who was monitoring Vitals)

I had now been intubated and they had started CPR - and I heard the 'Code Blue' over the intercom again...but this time - I was up by the ceiling speakers...no longer in the body....watching 5 response staff in what I call "organized chaos"...I started looking at my body and thinking..."Man - do I look bad....not good...not good at all !"...

Then I felt the wind below me as 2 men rushed in (techs) to assist the crew...now counting 7 in the room (8 counting me but I didn't count me) - with 2 more standing in the entry way to the room....( weeks later - once transported back to the 4th floor - I first told one of the nurses - who I recognized from the CPR (and she asked me - how do you know I was there?...you were non-responsive in Code ! )  

I saw a total of nine....and she said.."No - there were only 7 of us" - to which I then told her - I counted the two over by the doorway- and she freaked out- and said, "Wow -  yes - they were on 'stand-by'... there to assist if needed and be runners - in case we needed supplies (STAT)  - but they were not part of the response team in the room...how could you possibly know we hand stand-by..?" -

My answer....."Because I saw them - from up above them - just as I saw you.....3 other ladies, 2 men ...and one very tall doctor"...she was one of the younger nurses with only a decade or so of experience....and she just kept saying "Wow"...over and over. Because the cardiac arrest happened at 3 am...and this was the over-night crew on the 4th floor ( most patients are sleeping at those hours - naturally) ...

I didn't get to see some of the staff...or talk with some of them - until weeks after the event when I was moved out there for final recovery and to get ready for discharge. Two of the nurses were from the ICU ....and I have only had the chance to talk with one of them....and still have not - despite my many visits as an on-going out-patient there during the days....not had the chance to meet and talk with the Doctor....he works only nights.

During my Coma....they lost me briefly a few more times...(what they call a hic-cup) and each time I went out of my body....I saw my wife and my daughter out in the waiting room ( a fairly large waiting room - seats up to 100) ....my wife was sitting on the light blue 'love seat' by the back wall and my daughter was sitting on the arm chair near by it.....

My wife had tears running down her face...and my daughter was trying to calm her....saying "He's going to make it ...have faith...he's strong...he's a survivor - he's going to make it." I have spoken to both my wife and daughter about this several days later....and they were both awed by the detail....that was exactly where they sat....and close to the exact words my daughter said (apparently I missed a word or two...) ....and they told me they had just come from the nurses station asking how I was doing....and the nurse told them I was still in critical condition....and non-responsive...but somewhat stable....no change in either direction.

   There were many of these OBE events - possibly because of my severe condition....I also told  a transport guy - a few days after I was extubated...that the young girl with long black hair....past her waist...needs to learn how to drive better and stop hitting elevator door jabs and doorways .....and he was fascinated by that...he knew exactly who I was talking about...said she had only been there a few days....and was learning how to navigate the beds solo (they typically use two persons on 'transports' - but they're not always available on all floors in the early morning hours)