What if Humans Are NOT Earth's First Civilization? - Silurian Hypothesis

To be honest, I'm not sure I agree with you on this.

I honestly don't trust modern science very far by now. For example, psi presents a challenge to our orthodox orthodox science, and logically you would expect many scientists to be keen to explore this subject. Obviously the reverse is true, and I think something similar applies to the idea of prior civilisations on Earth.

If I think about technology when I was a kid, and compare it with what we have now, I seriously wonder if scientists back then would be able to recognise fragments of our modern technology. Fragments of CD computer disks, memory sticks, computer circuit boards, etc would be very hard to recognise back then, when modern electronics consisted of thermionic valves and chunky resistors and capacitors (I still remember the joy of making things from these - often salvaged from electronic junk of various sorts.)

If a Kindle (say) turned up back then with a flat battery, would anyone ever understand what it was?

Add to that the fact that most of our software arrives on our PC's over the internet, and the manuals are also obtained off the internet!

I'm also not sure other cultures would necessarily use toilets! They might see health advantages in going outdoors - particularly if they did not breed as much as we do.

Incidentally, would fluorocarbons and other exotic chemicals survive that long in a recognisable form? Science has a wonderful way of finding a 'natural' explanation for everything it discovers.

Above all, it would seem entirely reasonable that another civilisation might have harnessed the full potential of psi (which certainly seems to exist) to do goodness knows what!

David

Whether or not such a geologically ancient civilization eventually advanced to the point of being able to harness the full potential of psi, during their historical development these creatures would have had to produce massive amounts of technological objects and machines, much of which would inevitably have ended up as waste dumped in landfills or somewhere else in the environment, and some of it would have survived at least in fragments or traces in the rocks. Sure, contemporary electronics is increasingly small, delicate and degradable and very unlikely or even impossible in principle to be preserved, but that is not the whole of technological civilization. And it seems to me that the fact that contemporary science and especially scientism is becoming less and less to be trusted is irrelevant to the logical conclusion that there should have been at least some paleontological remains left by such a civilization.

Whether or not such a geologically ancient civilization eventually advanced to the point of being able to harness the full potential of psi, during their historical development these creatures would have had to produce massive amounts of technological objects and machines, much of which would inevitably have ended up as waste dumped in landfills or somewhere else in the environment, and some of it would have survived at least in fragments or traces in the rocks.

Well, I guess they might have focussed on psi and skipped technology altogether. Remember there are people who claim to survive without food or water, and one or two have been tested over short periods of time (weeks). It would seem that the period of time was limited by the labs, which had to move on to more important research.

Sure, contemporary electronics is increasingly small, delicate and degradable and very unlikely or even impossible in principle to be preserved, but that is not the whole of technological civilization.

It isn't clear how far back in time exactly these civilisations are purported to be, but if they coexisted with other animals and didn't need much/any food, their psi-based culture might not be visible.

And it seems to me that the fact that contemporary science and especially scientism is becoming less and less to be trusted is irrelevant to the logical conclusion that there should have been at least some paleontological remains left by such a civilization.

Science seems remarkably blind to observations that are not on-message. Judging by their reaction to psi issues, even their logic becomes suspect. For example normally psi is completely dismissed, yet when selected mediums produce strong evidence that they are communicating with dead people, super-strong psi becomes respectable as a possible explanation.

David

Well, I guess they might have focussed on psi and skipped technology altogether. Remember there are people who claim to survive without food or water, and one or two have been tested over short periods of time (weeks). It would seem that the period of time was limited by the labs, which had to move on to more important research.
It isn't clear how far back in time exactly these civilisations are purported to be, but if they coexisted with other animals and didn't need much/any food, their psi-based culture might not be visible.

Science seems remarkably blind to observations that are not on-message. Judging by their reaction to psi issues, even their logic becomes suspect. For example normally psi is completely dismissed, yet when selected mediums produce strong evidence that they are communicating with dead people, super-strong psi becomes respectable as a possible explanation.

David

So how come these sophisticated psi-civilisations disappered?

So how come these sophisticated psi-civilisations disappered?

Not that I support the idea of an undetectable past civilisation, I don't think any would claim to have power over the Sun or comets, asteroids or volcanic activity for example. Change is a natural and inevitable part of existence in this world.

Well, I guess they might have focussed on psi and skipped technology altogether. Remember there are people who claim to survive without food or water, and one or two have been tested over short periods of time (weeks). It would seem that the period of time was limited by the labs, which had to move on to more important research.
It isn't clear how far back in time exactly these civilisations are purported to be, but if they coexisted with other animals and didn't need much/any food, their psi-based culture might not be visible.

Science seems remarkably blind to observations that are not on-message. Judging by their reaction to psi issues, even their logic becomes suspect. For example normally psi is completely dismissed, yet when selected mediums produce strong evidence that they are communicating with dead people, super-strong psi becomes respectable as a possible explanation.

David

It seems to me that this is an albeit clever set of suggestions, but they amount to imaginary possibilities that go against the experience of humanity in the gradual and natural development of science and technology strictly based on ever improving understanding and material manipulation of nature for man's ends. 

Such development requires sources of energy other than muscle power, and the natural progression is a series of steps with each building on the previous, from the first steam engines to steam turbines to internal combustion and oil-derivative fueled turbines to nuclear to various Sun-powered carbon-free generation methods to perhaps hydrogen fusion. Every one of these steps (especially of course the internal combustion engine) when practiced by large populations leaves a lot of detritus. Such a long developmental process from simple to immensely complex and sophisticated would inevitably be the way "evolved" (whatever that means, not Darwinism) beings would start in a primitive and ignorant condition knowledge and tool-wise, and subject to historical vagary perhaps gradually develop high technology.

This sort of step-by-step historical process is essential and can't be bypassed unless you pull a rabbit out of a hat and propose that these creatures early developed advanced precognition or other psychic sensing abilities that allowed them to skip all the intermediate stages to go directly to some sort of very advanced culture that left virtually no long-lasting waste and detritus. Since your suggestions are wholly imaginary and we have no idea if they are even minutely possible, they are on the same plane as any other imaginary feat, even such as imagining that there are 10,000 angels dancing on the head of that pin over there.

It also occurs to me that even if such putative geologically ancient intelligent creatures never developed a technological high civilization, judging by the human history from the Bronze Age to the end of the middle ages and the beginnings of science, there still would be a lot of obviously intelligently made long-lasting detritus left in the environment, some of which could possibly remain to be discovered in far future ages. Less likely, but still possible.

Consider the amazing preservations discovered by paleontology, such as cartilaginous soft tissue somehow still preserved in the centers of some partially fossilized dinosaur bones, and the already-mentioned Burgess shale and similar geological formations preserving detailed fossils of many soft-bodied arthropods and other phyla, from more than 500 million years in the past.

As mentioned, I feel that the absence of any fossil technological evidence militates strongly against the existence of such putative intelligent geologically ancient beings, but there is another strong argument, the absence of very big brained forms over the entirety of evolutionary history, other than the relatively recent hominins including ourselves. We know that development of logical intellectual reasoning and other mental faculties is correlated to big brains, really big, and that this is not just correlation, but also the big brains seem to be necessary. The only remotely plausible candidate for even the precursors of this imagined geologically ancient intelligent race would have been the velociraptor family of dinosaurs, relatively small carnivores which were apparently in the process of developing relatively big brains when they were wiped out by the Cretaceous/Tertiary asteroidal impact that killed off more than 70% of land animal species and made way for the mammals.