The Skeptiko post-trauma thread

Count me in for the "mirror" idea. I have no issues with Alex benefiting from his own work, namely the podcasts, but that is hardly drawing in an audience... The Google hits are, and those belong to the variety of topics that we discussed in the "vibrant underbelly".

I don't know, guys, it just seems "off" to me to be mirroring Skeptiko forums that are still available at Skeptiko, not to mention disrespectful to Alex. It also might have the opposite than intended effect: as best I understand, Google's algorithms can punish sites for plagiarised content, which they might decide our mirror is.

Full html pages containing all posts in a thread shouldn't cause any problem, as that is not how they are visible to google right now on SF.

As for disrespect, I'm lost... Alex is not the author, and doesn't own the copyright on those posts... I do, Sci does etc... Alex has absolutely no ability to grant you any rights on that copyright material... he has no say, none what so ever. Rather, I do, Sci does... To ignore our ownership of our own writings, by suggesting Alex has some say (any say) over what happens to our posts beyond SF is simply wrong, and it's actually rather frustrating to hear.

It seems like you feel strongly about this, Sci. Tell you what, if you or anybody else can convince Alex to stick with his original idea to delete the forums, then I will happily put in the extra work of mirroring them here in HTML format based on the scrapes I already have (in JSON format). I just feel... uncomfortable... dragging traffic away from Skeptiko, which is suffering enough for the mistakes of its founder already, not to mention the potential issue I mentioned about Google penalising us for plagiarism.

I don't think that's right, as I've explained in my previous post.

I also think its wrong (and frustrating) to suggest to the actual authors of this work, that they should have to convince AT to remove their works, before you will consider publishing their work. Somehow you seem to have a misunderstanding that Alex owns this content... HE DOESN'T! Sorry to shout but is very frustrating to hear you put such an illigitimate block in the way of publishing these many authors own works.

[Laird]

Full html pages containing all posts in a thread shouldn't cause any problem, as that is not how they are visible to google right now on SF.

But it's the words that matter to Google, not how they're presented (in multiple pages or in a single page).

As for disrespect, I'm lost... Alex is not the author, and doesn't own the copyright on those posts... I do, Sci does etc... Alex has absolutely no ability to grant you any rights on that copyright material... he has no say, none what so ever. Rather, I do, Sci does... To ignore our ownership of our own writings, by suggesting Alex has some say (any say) over what happens to our posts beyond SF is simply wrong, and it's actually rather frustrating to hear.

I don't think that's right, as I've explained in my previous post.

I also think its wrong (and frustrating) to suggest to the actual authors of this work, that they should have to convince AT to remove their works, before you will consider publishing their work. Somehow you seem to have a misunderstanding that Alex owns this content... HE DOESN'T! Sorry to shout but is very frustrating to hear you put such an illigitimate block in the way of publishing these many authors own works.

Max, I really don't think you have a leg to stand on in this debate, to be honest. When I first proposed that we mirror the then-to-be-deleted Skeptiko forums, your response was something like: "I own the copyright to the posts I wrote on Skeptiko, and I refuse to grant you the right to mirror my content".

Do you remember that phase that you went through? It was on Chuck's forum, now deleted.

Can you understand, then, why I'd consider your reversal to be less than authentic: that you no longer care that (as per your original position) folks invested their copyright solely in Skeptiko, such that to mirror that content elsewhere would be breaching the contract they made with Alex?

Frankly, I'm a little pissed off that you would present an opposing opinion without acknowledging your original view, and impugning me in the process. I think I'm totally justified in saying "The posts were originally intended for Skeptiko, and unless/until Alex releases them from that platform, we have no business mirroring them".

I honestly don't know who owns the copyright, honestly I'd be surprised if anyone could be said to own the forum posts.

It seems the founders are wary of mirroring, so as long as the scrapes are downloadable I'm good with that compromise.

After all it's only a matter of time before Alex tires of having the old forums around since they are largely dead.

"The posts were originally intended for Skeptiko, and unless/until Alex releases them from that platform, we have no business mirroring them".

Absolutely acceptable in-so-far that you feel you might want to seek permission from the copyright owners... the actual authors... but totally wrong with regards the Alex's involvement. He has no involvement, copyright is retained by the authors of that work. Further more, Alex only sought the right for a non-exclusive agreement to store and display the authors comments on Skeptiko when they signed up. He has no other rights, so bringing Alex into your argument in any way isn't relevant.

I honestly don't know who owns the copyright, honestly I'd be surprised if anyone could be said to own the forum posts.

It seems the founders are wary of mirroring, so as long as the scrapes are downloadable I'm good with that compromise.

After all it's only a matter of time before Alex tires of having the old forums around since they are largely dead.

The authors own the copyright in their own works. SF's agreement was quite clear...

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oh - Now I'm beginning to understand a little about what happened with Skeptico.

[Laird]

Sorry about my last post, Max, I'd had a few too many last night and shouldn't have been posting - I went way too hard on you and didn't make all that much sense! Anyhow, as Sci says, the JSON scrape data is available for anybody who wants it, and for now that should be good enough - if Alex/David shut down the forums permanently then, yes, we'll generate an HTML mirror out of it.