Steven Greer and the "gravity control" whistleblowers

[Ninshub]

So what do people here make of Greer's claims, for a long time now, but that are being pushed heavily in his very recent docs, that there are whistleblowers who have been revealing the US military complex figured out how to reverse engineer UFOs decades ago, that they "master" anti-gravity? Supposedly aerospace companies have been producing these vehicles for divisions within the military, including the Tic-Tac vehicle, and this accounts for some of the vehicles that are mistaken for alien ships out there. (Other parts of the military don't know this is going on.)

He mentions in one recent doc that one person on his team saw a Top Secret document as far back as October 1954 that made this claim (mastery of gravity control).

This Wiki article details some of these claims by certain UFOlogists/whistleblowers and when they were made:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Sta...n_research

[Ninshub]

Theneedleblog's summary and criticism of this idea of Greer's:

Cosmic Hoax: A Critical Response
gojam | July 15, 2021 · 10:32 am

Clearly, anything that is unidentified and in the air is a UFO and I think this can lead to people being at cross-purposes on this issue. When Ben Rich, former head of Lockheed Martin Skunkworks explains in a letter, quoted in this movie, that UFO reports are both ‘ours’ [human] and extraterrestrial, he is simply stating a fact that top secret advanced aerospace tests have been misidentified as UFOs, of extraterrestrial origin. What Greer is suggesting is that the exo-fascist shadow government are deliberately deploying UFOs/UAPs in a Psy Ops campaign designed to establish in the general population the impression that an alien invasion is imminent. This, according to Greer, will allow the exo-fascist shadow government to declare war on the extraterrestrials, I’m not entirely clear if Greer believes the exo-fascists will literally declare war on extraterrestrials or just pretend to as a way controlling the public by bringing in repressive measures. I feel obliged to note that Luis Elizondo and those close to him, who remember, Dr Greer believes are spokespeople for the exo-fascist shadow government, have repeatedly stated that UAPs represent beyond next generation capability and I’m confused as to the Psy Ops advantage gained by making it clear that we wouldn’t have a chance in a conflict.

Dr Steven Greer doesn’t just believe that some top secret advanced aerospace tests have been misidentified as UFOs he actually believes that the exo-fascists have retro-engineered extraterrestrial technology and that they possess craft that have similar capabilities. So, Greer is suggesting that they possess technology that can do 6 to 7 hundred G forces, that can fly at 13 thousand miles an hour, that can evade radar, and that can fly through air, and water, and possibly space, have no obvious signs of propulsion, no wings, no control surfaces, and yet still can defy the natural effects of Earth’s gravity and that the exo-fascists are using this technology to fake UFO/UAP sightings around the world. Those leaked tic tac videos? Fake. Black triangles? Mostly fake.

[Ninshub]

Re: this bit:

I’m not entirely clear if Greer believes the exo-fascists will literally declare war on extraterrestrials or just pretend to as a way controlling the public by bringing in repressive measures.

What Greer is saying is that some intelligent factions want to create a fake war against ET in order to further develop and legitimize the U.S. Space Force, and that they don't want the knowledge out that humans have this technology because it would disrupt the world economically and geo-politically.

[Ninshub]

Corbell answers the question about "is this technology the Americans'?" at 12:05.



I can't say I'm convinced either way.

Theneedleblog's summary and criticism of this idea of Greer's:

Cosmic Hoax: A Critical Response
gojam | July 15, 2021 · 10:32 am

A few thoughts: my first response is that Greer is probably a fraud. If the military had really reverse-engineered UFO technology so as to develop antigravity and inertia-cancelling capability and applied it to experimental US military aircraft, the pressure to apply it generally to Air Force and Navy weapon systems to achieve decisive superiority over our adversaries in China and Russia, would be irresistable. 

And even more telling, the pressure would be even more irresistable to apply the new technology to commercial technologies so as to make huge profits. After all, this is a capitalist society virtually ruled by profit-hungry corporations.

Instead it's business as usual, with merely incremental advances to conventional technology, at huge cost, many with a lot of problems, like the F-35 program and the improved 737 jetliner program, which have cost untold billions of dollars. With reverse-engineered UFO technology with radically improved performance available, would the powers-that-be permit such a waste of money and additionally forgo the potential of making untold billions of dollars in new profit?

So the UFO reverse-engineering claim is almost certainly bogus.

However, with all that said, I am still given pause by the newly revealed British UFO photograph from 1990 that I just posted about (at https://psiencequest.net/forums/thread-t...y-revealed). As I mentioned, the picture is almost certainly genuine, the vehicle was about 100 feet long, and exhibited UFO-like inertia control, extreme acceleration, and antigravity hovering capability. And an RAF fighter made a pass by it apparently to observe, then went on its way, as if it was a known US-built experimental vehicle, not a possibly threatening alien vehicle. 

Food for thought. Maybe it might just possibly be true that, counter-intuitively, our military-industrial complex is conducting the most radically beyond top secret program in history, putting the Manhattan Project to shame.

[Ninshub]

And even more telling, the pressure would be even more irresistable to apply the new technology to commercial technologies so as to make huge profits. After all, this is a capitalist society virtually ruled by profit-hungry corporations.

Just on this point though. Greer's argument is that this new technology would make gas, electricity, etc., obsolete, so trillions and trillions of dollars would be at stake. So I think it is a legitimate question to ask: if the military and the aviation industries have this technology, would it really be in their benefit to have it out there? It'd be hard to think that they could announce they have it and not have tremendous pressure from scientists, governments, all over the world, to have access to it.

Plus there's the security question of having this technology used by adversaries to near-instantaneously deliver bombs to other countries.

I was watching the 2021 doc by Greer "Countdown to Disclosure: The Secret Technology Behind the Space Force". (He has another one even more recent out, Above Top Secret.) I'll try to relocate the part where Greer discusses these issues specifically and PM you if you want to listen to the arguments more precisely.

Just on this point though. Greer's argument is that this new technology would make gas, electricity, etc., obsolete, so trillions and trillions of dollars would be at stake. So I think it is a legitimate question to ask: if the military and the aviation industries have this technology, would it really be in their benefit to have it out there? It'd be hard to think that they could announce they have it and not have tremendous pressure from scientists, governments, all over the world, to have access to it.

Plus there's the security question of having this technology used by adversaries to near-instantaneously deliver bombs to other countries.

I was watching the 2021 doc by Greer "Countdown to Disclosure: The Secret Technology Behind the Space Force". (He has another one even more recent out, Above Top Secret.) I'll try to relocate the part where Greer discusses these issues specifically and PM you if you want to listen to the arguments more precisely.

It's a good point that if, in addition to antigravity and inertia-cancelling UFO technology, cheap and easily implemented fusion energy or something even beyond that had been obtained so as to make the whole energy infrastructrure obsolete, then the powers-that-be might have intervened to prevent what could be a catastrophic calamity with the economy, with our entire society.

[Ninshub]

I'll try to relocate the part where Greer discusses these issues specifically and PM you if you want to listen to the arguments more precisely.

I looked instead on youtube to find somewhere Greer discusses this, so that it's available to anyone who wants to hear talk about this.

This is from last year, and at 24 minutes he starts talking about what's in this thread, specifically for the first minutes (starting at the 24 minute mark) about the reasons for keeping this technology secret.

So what do people here make of Greer's claims, for a long time now, but that are being pushed heavily in his very recent docs, that there are whistleblowers who have been revealing the US military complex figured out how to reverse engineer UFOs decades ago, that they "master" anti-gravity? Supposedly aerospace companies have been producing these vehicles for divisions within the military, including the Tic-Tac vehicle, and this accounts for some of the vehicles that are mistaken for alien ships out there. (Other parts of the military don't know this is going on.)

He mentions in one recent doc that one person on his team saw a Top Secret document as far back as October 1954 that made this claim (mastery of gravity control).

This Wiki article details some of these claims by certain UFOlogists/whistleblowers and when they were made:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Sta...n_research

Greer makes claims that can't confirmed. Of course, he may be in that position though no fault of his own. But this puts us in the position of having to take him on faith - something I decline to do.

I am suspicious of claims of the US military back-engineering UFOs, and that anti-grav tech has been developed for the same reason. There is no evidence we can assess. 

The thing about Tic-Tacs is that their conduct is not consistent with how I imagine such craft would behave if controlled by US government or corporate forces. The conduct is more like an agency that is taking the piss out of the USAF and Navy - playing games. This history of US military aircraft interacting with UFOs has been consistent over the past 70+ years - ridiculously outclassed. There is no need to invoke Tic-Tacs as human-made to explain this mismatch. All that appears to have happened is that they have upped the intensity and frequency of their cheekiness.

This isn't attracting the critical attention it aught. The ability to capture and leak images has forced the US govt into a couple of uncomfortable admissions in the past few years. It still talks silly BS, which some will realise, but most won't. I don't think this is a step toward Greer's much coveted 'disclosure' - and it will be some time before that happens - if at all IMO. Maybe admitting the bleeding obvious might be construed as 'disclosure' - but I don't think so. That admission has already been implicitly made - and that's likely to be the best we'll get - until and unless something dramatic happens.

Yes there have been 'whistleblowers', but misinformation is also an art practiced by the US govt. You can make all the claims you like, but they are of no value unless they can be verified or confirmed in some way.

This is not to say that exploring a UFO has not provided clues and information that have informed subsequent discoveries. That would be normal. The sheer challenge of trying to figure out WTF these craft are would doubtless stimulate breakthroughs.

I prefer the argument that these craft are inter-dimensional, and we still don't have a clue how to replicate their performance in this dimension. Of course, I have no evidence this is the case. As an argument it fits into, what is for me, a more coherent vision of what is going on.

[Ninshub]

Good points!

Re: how the Tic-Tac behaves with the USAF. Jeremy Corbell made a similar argument about in the interview I posted in post no 4 - that you wouldn't expect one part of the US military playing with another, as opposed to a different country's.

I noticed that this week John DeSouza was on the Art Bell show and the program description says this:

DeSouza has concluded that the Navy 'Tic Tac' UAP sightings likely represent man-made top-secret technology and that a lot of the recent government disclosure and hearings are part of a massive PsyOp effort that will eventually involve a fake alien invasion. He predicted that such UAP vehicles would destroy infrastructure and that the US government would announce that aliens are already here through the DNA of certain humans, and citizens would be required to take tests to see if they have those markers. He also foresees that ancient moon bases will be energized and brought to life.

So this is one narrative that's going on in some quarters of the UFO community (surely not the predominant). (But DeSouza has appeared in Greer docs, so he may be on the "same team".)

You're right about misinformation. Greer himself has claimed there are CIA misinformants among Tom De Longe's To The Stars group, and insinuated that Luis Elizondo and even Corbell (!) are intentionally misinforming as well. But I mean you could say the same thing about whoever is "informing" Greer. It's all likely a mixture of egos, ex-CIA/FBI agents with paranoid worldviews, whistleblowers who are themselves perhaps intentionally misinformed (and will only have a partial view from whatever compartmentalized information they had access to ), etc. etc.