Reincarnation Cases

What was the scene you dreamed?

I am intrigued, as I have a few dream like memories from childhood that resonate with ideas in this film. They are those weird dreamy type memories that feel more like memories than dreams, but are so weird that they simply "must" be dreams.

One of those for me was being a person who seemed to be in a vast but underground expanse. I remember standing close to a ceiling which was like natural rock, or inside a cave. I know that just beyond this ceiling, this rock, is the world where we all are now, and I yearn to escape, or tunnel out or something.  Although the other world feels so close, as if I could reach it if I tunneled, there is also the sense that it is far away, like in a different dimension. Weird dream. Feels like a dream, because it is so weird, but also feels like a memory, like it happened. It has a certain quality of experience to it, that fantasy lacks. Anyway, I will never know.

It will be Interesting to hear what your dream presented to you.

Rather than type it all in I'd rather just share a clip that explains it all, because it is actually more than just one dream. The clip is of marginal quality but it is what it is.

The story starts at about 46:00 in this clip. You may want to watch the whole thing to get a broader context.

I'd be happy to answer any questions.

Typical Stevenson, clear, undeniable and well researched.

He simply has the wrong terms for the right approach. Or you might could say that he felt it necessary to state his findings by labeling them as "reincarnation" since this is a more familiar response to those in physical, time-based reality. No problems with either discussion, one is more operationally accurate.

Let me say this another way, from a personal POV. Decades back, I began studying reincarnation. Which led to exactly what happens to you (pl) between incarnations. Enter the concept of the spirit world. And on. If there had not been the Stevenson's of the world, and their time-based findings, I might have passed entirely on the entire subject.

Admittedly we are at different points on our road of discovery, but perhaps like you, I found that reincarnation was the hammer that cracked the egg for me. It was the thing that set me firmly forward to discover more, as I couldn't ignore the momentous nature of what Stevenson was uncovering and describing.

[quote pid='2646' dateline='1504148872']
We chose to have a physical experience in a physical body because it is one of the best ways to create unique POV. You enter the Earth Plane remembering quite a bit of who you really are only, as childhood passes, you rapidly forget. Society, parents, friends, enemies, all contribute to your belief systems which, as you come of age, must be individually examined for the relevance to your true (spirit) vibration. If they are out of alignment, drop them. As you go this course, you come closer and closer to re-membering the real You, the spirit You.

[/quote]

New Age teachings. Be careful how you define "we". The being that chooses a physical life destined in many cases to be miserable and full of suffering is not the same being that has to experience it. Honor the human self that has to suffer and who would never choose such an existence. That human being would insist that it had to be somebody else that made such decisions.

Be careful how you define "we". The being that chooses a physical life destined in many cases to be miserable and full of suffering is not the same being that has to experience it. Honor the human self that has to suffer and who would never choose such an existence. That human being would insist that it had to be somebody else that made such decisions.

They can insist on anything they want, for that matter, it is an unique experience to go through life playing out the victim. Nonetheless, you create your physical reality, you're responsible for your physical experience, spirit all the time chooses to experience shitty lives. It's your choice, to either live your life through yourself or allow life to slam it to you.

They can insist on anything they want, for that matter, it is an unique experience to go through life playing out the victim. Nonetheless, you create your physical reality, you're responsible for your physical experience, spirit all the time chooses to experience shitty lives. It's your choice, to either live your life through yourself or allow life to slam it to you.

I don't necessarily deny that life-between lives soul choice may be the actual process. I just question that it is a good thing from the human standpoint. It is the soul that benefits, not the human. Just try advocating this New Age philosophy to some people in a last-stage cancer ward, or to some paraplegics, or to some parents that have lost a child. Just get ready for some expletives. As to the claim that "you" create your physical reality, it is obviously not the physical human self that creates this - it presumably is the soul, and the soul must assume responsibility.

I don't necessarily deny that life-between lives soul choice may be the actual process. I just question that it is a good thing from the human standpoint. It is the soul that benefits, not the human. Just try advocating this New Age philosophy to some people in a last-stage cancer ward, or to some paraplegics, or to some parents that have lost a child. Just get ready for some expletives. As to the claim that "you" create your physical reality, it is obviously not the physical human self that creates this - it presumably is the soul, and the soul must assume responsibility.

clip- It is the soul that benefits, not the human.

True. 

But also I have read of several cases where parents have said that their child dying you was a hidden blessing. Something that lead to tremendous growth and insight.

But then again,, this was AFTER they were able to communicate with the child and knew they were OK and better understood the mechanics of this living dying thing.

In most cases, yes, the human does not have the perspective to understand the benefits of their plight. 

Of course, if they did,,, it wouldn't be much of a plight, now would it? 

So it really needs to be this way...

You cant really learn the lesson of suffering, if you knew it wasn't really suffering after all.

[Laird]

clip- It is the soul that benefits, not the human.

True. 

But also I have read of several cases where parents have said that their child dying you was a hidden blessing. Something that lead to tremendous growth and insight.

But then again,, this was AFTER they were able to communicate with the child and knew they were OK and better understood the mechanics of this living dying thing.

In most cases, yes, the human does not have the perspective to understand the benefits of their plight. 

Of course, if they did,,, it wouldn't be much of a plight, now would it? 

So it really needs to be this way...

You cant really learn the lesson of suffering, if you knew it wasn't really suffering after all.

What exactly is "the lesson of suffering", jkmac, and why would we need to learn it (whatever it is)? Isn't there already a place beyond this mortal realm where everything is perfect - perfect love, perfect holiness, perfect divinity? Why, then, are we sent down here in the first place, when we could be living in perfect love, holiness and divinity?

What exactly is "the lesson of suffering", jkmac, and why would we need to learn it (whatever it is)? Isn't there already a place beyond this mortal realm where everything is perfect - perfect love, perfect holiness, perfect divinity? Why, then, are we sent down here in the first place, when we could be living in perfect love, holiness and divinity?

To be complete we need to understand what it means to be happy, and to be sad, to know bliss, and suffering, to know what it means to be abused and be the abuser, and on and on and on and on. 

That is the definition of complete, isn't it?

I'm not sure everything IS "perfect" in this other realm. That's not what I have gathered from LBL (life between lives) and channeled works anyway. 

We are all works in progress, and dying doesn't make us perfect, or complete, or wise, or gleefully happy. We get there bit by bit, life by life. And eventually we decide we don't need to incarnate anymore and we move on to the next grade...

[Laird]

To be complete

Wait, who said the goal was to be "complete"? And why would we need to incarnate to achieve this? I suppose I should ask first of all what your metaphysical view is, because you state later that you are not sure that the "other" realm is perfect. So, then, what is it, and why can it not provide us with whatever "complete" understanding we need/desire without incarnating?

we need to understand what it means to be happy, and to be sad, to know bliss, and suffering, to know what it means to be abused and be the abuser, and on and on and on and on. 

Do we really need all those complementary negatives? And if so, do we need to understand them through experiencing them? Surely, if I describe a murder to another person, s/he understands well enough how awful that would be without having to actually experience being murdered?

That is the definition of complete, isn't it?

I don't know, is it? And what does "being complete" have to do with our ultimate aims? Aren't they to be happy and satisfied? Why would pain and suffering have anything to do with that?

I'm not sure everything IS "perfect" in this other realm. That's not what I have gathered from LBL (life between lives) and channeled works anyway. 

We are all works in progress, and dying doesn't make us perfect, or complete, or wise, or gleefully happy. We get there bit by bit, life by life. And eventually we decide we don't need to incarnate anymore and we move on to the next grade...

OK, so, there are grades. Presumably then there is a Teacher who created us. Why did S/He create us at the lowest grade to start with rather than the highest?

# First let me say that my opinions here are based on reading channeled works, listening to various trance mediums, and reading accounts of LBLs, among other things. But of course these are just my opinions.

Q Wait, who said the goal was to be "complete"?  
A- my sources that I have mentioned. See above.

Q And why would we need to incarnate to achieve this?
A- because living in the earth plane with no knowledge of the greater system, is the only way to experience life with the immediacy of consequences. Otherwise you are working with a net. Anyone can walk on a thin rail 1 foot off the ground. It takes real courage to do it when the consequences of falling are death. You can't develop or experience real courage working with a net.

Q I suppose I should ask first of all what your metaphysical view is, because you state later that you are not sure that the "other" realm is perfect. So, then, what is it, 

A- no I can't do this in the context of a single post here. That is not a reasonable request. I may try at some later time what I have an hour or ten to sit and write it. In any case, I think you can glean my basic principals by reading some of my posts.

Q why can it not provide us with whatever "complete" understanding we need/desire without incarnating? 
A Who knows why we weren't formed as a complete being. Seems rather pointless to me but who and I to say. I just know from the literature that we aren't.

If you believe in human evolution I can ask you the same unreasonable question: why weren't we created right off the bat with a large brain, ability to walk upright, to talk, and to fly space shuttles? Stupid question right? If I were to posit an answer I guess I would point to the 3 laws of thermodynamics and the relationship between the energy and organization of a system. But that is a topic for a different thread I think. 

Q Who said?
A The sources I mentioned.  

Q Do we really need all those complementary negatives?
A- No, but its a pretty good way to do it.

Do you understand what the abuser was possibly thinking when he did the act? One way to know is to experience BEING the abuser. Maybe then, you might have a bit more compassion for that person.

Q And if so, do we need to understand them through experiencing them? Surely, if I describe a murder to another person, s/he understands well enough how awful that would be without having to actually experience being murdered? 

A- Oh come on. Do you REALLY believe that? How about this real life example: I am a paraglider pilot. I can tell you what it was like for me to have my paraglider collapse 5,000 feet off the ground, and the feelings I had as I plummeted toward the ground and toward my certain painful death. Do you REALLY think you would have any idea how that felt if I just described it to you? Or would you have a better appreciation if you actually went through the experience. Come on now,, be honest.

Q (regarding the Definition of complete)... I don't know, is it? And what does "being complete" have to do with our ultimate aims? Aren't they to be happy and satisfied? Why would pain and suffering have anything to do with that?

A- Actually no, our goal is not to be "happy and satisfied". It is to evolve. To evolve toward "completion". Being happy is excellent, but it isn't evolution.

Q OK, so, there are grades. Presumably then there is a Teacher who created us. Why did S/He create us at the lowest grade to start with rather than the highest?

A- Grades is just a term I used, and it doesn't mean there is a teacher necessarily. If I were an autodidact, I can be in a grade with no teacher. By grade I was referring to the process of evolving. Success at one "level" doesn't mean you are done. Learning important lessons doesn't mean the learning is over. Mastering your alphabet doesn't mean you know how to read. 

Why don't you just start knowing everything? I don't know,, when we were figuring out how the world works, why didn't we start with E=MCsquared? IF it isn't obvious,, it's because one needs to progress with one step leading to the next step, one block, sits on the block under it.