Qi, Qigong and electromagnetism

An interesting new article mainly on the science of Qi and of the practice of Qigong just came out in Edge Science, the magazine of the Society for Scientific Exploration (SSI). The title is "Psi, Vital Energy and Electromagnetism", at https://edgescience.org/psi-vital-energy...omagnetism . The author, I think in trying to link psi and esp with scientifically understood electromagnetics, makes a credible attempt at such a connection with mainly the specialized group of apparently paranormal phenomena exhibited in the ancient Chinese practice of Qigong, and also of Hindu yoga.

"Explaining Qi (and Qigong) revisited:

There is an abundant record suggesting the existence of vital energy and that anyone may be able to learn to manipulate it and manifest it with enough effort and practice. Moreover, most of that record suggests that this energy is associated with electromagnetic phenomena, although researchers have not yet found a reasonable explanation of all psi phenomena in terms of electromagnetism only (Radin, 2006; Harvey & Watt, 2007).  The information reviewed here shows that trained qigong practitioners can generate a wide range of electric field oscillations: Super low and low frequency (VLF, LF, ~10-102 Hz, as in works cited by Chen, Seto’s experiments, and sparks produced by Fazio (2022) and Senteris (n.d.)); High frequency (103, kilohertz, as in Kirlian photography and Moss’ (1979) experiments).

Very high frequency (VHF, megahertz 106-107 Hz, as in emulation of toy-car remote controls by Fazio, Senteris, and his students); Ultrahigh frequency (UHF, gigahertz, 109 Hz), as in works cited by Chen, Yao and Shen, and Bluetooth devices emulated by Fazio; Near-infrared frequency (NIR, terahertz, 1012-1013 Hz), as in works cited by Chen, and Ohnishi and Ohnishi’s experiments, and TV- remote control signals emulated by Fazio.

Moreover, the fact that practitioners such as Fazio, Senteris and his students can emulate encoded remote control signals suggests that they can tune the frequency subconsciously depending on the desired outcome. It is important to highlight that one cannot simply switch on/off a device such as a TV set or an RC car by emitting a broadband signal, but a specific pulse sequence has to be sent to the device.
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...simple explanations of Qi (and psi in general) based on electromagnetism, or specifically electrostatics, do not hold for actions exerted on objects several meters away and sometimes even kilometers away, as there is no measurable field in the intermediate space. The human-generated field, if that is associated with qi, seems to be somehow transferred directly to the object, which suggests some sort of field teleportation as a possible explanation of qi propagation (this may be related to quantum mechanics and quantum entanglement phenomena.)"

Despite this, I don't think electromagnetism can possibly explain most of the well documented and demonstrated phenomena of esp, especially telepathy, clairvoyance and precognition, and their manifestations in paranormal phenomena such as mediumistic communications, NDEs, reincarnation memories, etc.

[Ninshub]

Thanks for that, NB!

Interesting to read that personally given that I've attended courses given by my acupuncturist on qi-gong in the last months and now am practicing it daily. It's supposed to be very good for all forms of healing (physical, psychological, spiritual), and she thinks it will further help me greatly. It's before attending one of those courses that I had that potentially precognitive vision that I wrote about a little while ago on this forum (the one with the blue and green balls of light).

Despite this, I don't think electromagnetism can possibly explain most of the well documented and demonstrated phenomena of esp, especially telepathy, clairvoyance and precognition, and their manifestations in paranormal phenomena such as mediumistic communications, NDEs, reincarnation memories, etc.

I agree - these phenomena seem to resemble other psi phenomena in that the mind interacts with a complex physical object (e.g. healing) without knowing the complexities of the object in question. I suspect that the measuring instruments may be being disturbed in this way.

I also find it inconceivable that these effects can be explained electromagnetically because the overall effect seems to have a purpose to it - not just be a random physical effect.

I suspect China may be waay ahead in the study of these effects - look up Paul Dong - because perhaps there is less of a culture of denial over there.

David

well documented and demonstrated phenomena of esp, especially telepathy, clairvoyance and precognition,

I wish we could ban phrases like this because they are loaded with bias and would be better on a New Age forum than on a forum that claims to be, at least in part, scientific in its outlook.

I wish we could ban phrases like this because they are loaded with bias and would be better on a New Age forum than on a forum that claims to be, at least in part, scientific in its outlook.

Why - I mean I think we can all think of well documented examples of all of these phenomena - that doesn't mean that every individual case is so well documented.

David

Why - I mean I think we can all think of well documented examples of all of these phenomena - that doesn't mean that every individual case is so well documented.

David

This goes back discussions we've had years ago - like when Iyace & Maanelli were convinced by Psi data whereas I said that if I didn't have any personal experiences I am very unsure if I'd believe in the paranormal.

I'd like to think I'd take a hard look at the data and come away convinced...but who can really say?

Rationally it seems clear that materialist belief is nonsensical, which opens the door to a lot of phenomena. And I've talked to people who have given what I consider to be convincing testimonies regarding Psi & Survival...so I'd like to think I wouldn't be a materialist-atheist fundamentalist at the least...

Of course you have non-materialists like Sam Harris, Lee Smolin, and so on who reject stuff like Psi and Intelligent Design. Martin Gardner was a theist and skeptic all at once...which does seem odd to me admittedly...On the flip you have parapsychologists who feel confident materialist explanations will be found for Psi phenomenon.

[Ninshub]

I wish we could ban phrases like this because they are loaded with bias and would be better on a New Age forum than on a forum that claims to be, at least in part, scientific in its outlook.

David answered accurately here, Brian. If you think nb's phrasing is incorrect and has no place here, I would invite you to re-read this forum's rule no 7. If your own position is that, in general, ESP is not proven (i.e. there are no well documented cases of any such phenomena), you are the one who should be reconsidering how you post on the Extended Consciousness Phenomena half of this forum.

I wish we could ban phrases like this because they are loaded with bias and would be better on a New Age forum than on a forum that claims to be, at least in part, scientific in its outlook.

Here we go again. Already endlessly and tiresomely plowed ground. Talk about bias - you presume that telepathy, clairvoyance, precognition (and esp and psi in general) are somehow not "science" according to your definition - a neat preemptory ideological blanket dismissal. I might suggest a little reading for education into the evidence: 

Irreducible Mind: Toward a Psychology for the 21st Century
by Edward Kelly and Emily Williams Kelly

The Self Does Not Die: Verified Paranormal Phenomena from Near-Death Experiences
by Titus Rivas, Anny Dirven, et al.

I wish we could ban phrases like this because they are loaded with bias and would be better on a New Age forum than on a forum that claims to be, at least in part, scientific in its outlook.

But science forums discuss consciousness arising in computer programs and undetectable universes exponentially generated by every wave function collapse?

If the contention is that something is or isn't definitively proven, even there you have camps believing there's sufficient evidence to make some conclusion or another.

I also think banning someone for stating their belief that some amount of evidence is conclusive would not happen on a scientific forum either. Maybe for something like Intelligent Design in an atheist slanted forum but that seems anti-scientific to me...

Hi NB.

Other than the discussion your post has started among some of the forum's sceptics, what really caught my attention is the fact that I was unaware about any evidence for the existence of Qi. And yet, the article you posted seems to provide evidence in favor of it's existence.

Am I right on assuming this?