Hey guys, below is my interview with Cyrus which he kindly took time out to answer for us. I found the answers very interesting myself, and I'm sure everyone else will too. I'd like to thank Cyrus for his time, and to everyone who commented with questions, particularly Laird who took the time to read Cyrus's book and who emailed me several questions! Cyrus has joined the forum, so any follow up additional questions please comment below with them and Cyrus will try to answer. Anyway without further ado, the interview starts below, the questions are in blue, and Cyrus's answers are in black.
Roberta: Hi Cyrus! Thanks for joining us on Psiencequest, how are you doing today?
Cyrus: Hi. I’m glad to be here.
Roberta: The first thing we want to ask is you is to tell us a little about yourself. How did you start having OBE’s?
Cyrus: OBEs began to occur spontaneously only in 2014. They became frequent enough that by the summer I knew I had to chronicle my journals in what was my upcoming book (“Understanding Life After Death”). I’d been an afterlife researcher and writer long before that time, but these experiences allowed me to begin having “supernatural” experiences on a regular basis.
A little about me: I’m a freelance writer and editor who currently lives in Culver City, CA. I’m 31 years-old. In a field where it seems like the median age is 65, people often call me a young ‘un. I’ve been interested in life after death since I was only 12 or 13 years-old. Nothing spurred this on, just an unending desire to understand what happens after “death” inevitably claims us.
Roberta: How regularly do you have OBE’s and what’s the process like?
Cyrus: OBEs can be taxing mentally. I started having many at night during my normal sleep cycle, but then I started mentally blocking it from occurring as I wanted to just rest without crazy things happening.
Normally, if I desire an OBE, I’ll do a “midday nap.” Especially if I’m not that tired ahead of time. The process of laying down, closing my eyes and beginning to drift off generally stops at the point my body is going to sleep while my mind doesn’t. Suddenly, I can move my astral limbs out of my normal limbs and I’m OOB.
Roberta: Many people say lucid dreams and OBE’s are similar - what do you see as the essential differences between a lucid dream and an out of body experience? Can you go to the same places with both?
Cyrus: Lucid dreams can definitely become OBEs. The difference is that a lucid dream state is a reality clearly generated by your own mind. You can shape everything around you or create synthetic entities to interact with. (For instance, many lucid dreamers create sexual experiences with their celebrity crushes). From an OOB standpoint, I’ve seen other people dreaming. For instance, in the OOB state I’ve seen my roommate in our house. He’ll be standing six feet away from his bed mumbling to himself (in his astral body), reaching his arms out like a sleepwalker. This is him dreaming, in his own little world, whereas I’m still in the objective reality.
I think these realities are tied in to each other. The astral world is more “loose” physically than our world. It’s possible to shape the environment to some extent with your mind. Even to create an object with your thoughts (conjuration). But it’s harder and your environment is shared by other with real people (just like here), so even if you could create Godzilla to trample the city (which you can’t) – you probably wouldn’t want to hurt or destroy other people’s lives. In my own experience, the mental powers are possible on the astral, but many people still lead fairly “normal” lives – it’s not a bunch of chaos with things constantly being created or the environment in constant flux. People live in houses, go to jobs, travel, party, explore, etc.
A lucid dream is an inner-world, a demi-plane existing entirely within your mind where indeed anything CAN happen “safely” as there is no other independent souls in that video-game like realm. Reportedly some of us can enter other people’s dreamscapes, or even construct environments for particular purposes, much like the movie “The Matrix.”
Roberta: Jurgen Ziewe, whose experience seems more with lucid dreams than astral project as such, saying that when you enter the immediate astral, you enter a realm which is *almost* identical to the physical but not *quite* - some details will be slightly different. You might find a vase of flowers on a table which in the real world is empty, for example. If I recall correctly, he seems to understand that there are "concentric" realms out from the physical, which differ more and more from the physical the further out they go. Does this perspective match your experience too?
Cyrus: Firstly, it’s rather controversial to say Jurgen’s experiences are lucid dreams. I am certain he’d disagree. At the same time, an OBEr runs the risk of confusing the two, which also creates misinformation about the astral world (if what one saw were merely things one’s subconscious was creating). Jurgen has protocols in place to guarantee it’s not a dream, and he’s better at these protocols than I am, as I’ve been fooled before. If you’re untrained (and I’m not fully trained) dream-field hallucinations will invade your experience and you’ll begin seeing obvious nonsense from your inner mental-world that I don’t believe other people can see or interact with.
Now, as for the identical-but-different phenomena; yes. The near-earth astral is a copy-and-paste replica of the entire planet. But once you copy and paste the program and it begins running separately, it’s going to inevitably change as it modifies and operates independently. If I go OOB in my bedroom, I’m now in a new dimension that’s still closely linked.
As an example, I may see physical matter from THIS side intermixed with astral matter. So my hand will go through my desk and nightlamp, but it will touch and grab a candle (that only exists on that side). Sometimes, I will grab an object and find two separate objects tethered to each other. So I’ll pull the astral replica of my pillow up out of the Earth-matter pillow, which will remain (and be impervious to touch), meanwhile I am touching and handling its astral counterpart. It would seem matter has astral replicas as with our own bodies.
Further, if I were to pull the astral replica pillow out and toss it across the room, if I were to go OOB 2 days later, I’d still find the pillow laying where I threw it, thus noting the consistency of this environment.
Roberta: What are the most striking OBE’s you’ve had?
Cyrus: I’ve been to other realms, temples, cities, crowded urban areas, and I’ve sat with my mom (deceased in 2016) and eaten cake with her, and I’ve had her visit me in my room, where she comes to that replica environment and sits next to me and we can talk normally. That’s what really matters.
Striking OBEs also includes the most basic episodes, where I am in my bed and pulling my astral limbs out of my body. I can maintain this state the longest (even hours if I wish) just playing with my astral limbs while lying there. Of course, it gets boring after a while, but knowing in a 100% lucid state that I’m in a parallel body that will, someday after I’m dead, be my new primary body, is extremely relieving.
Roberta: Have you ever brought back veridical information from your OBE’s? If so, can you tell us a little about it?
Cyrus: Yes, one time I met a young man working at a bar for MMA enthusiasts. He told me his story - that he was from Arizona, and how he died recently. Plus he told me his full name after I asked for it. I told him I’d look him up when I returned (and his reaction was basically “WTF? Really?”). I did and found his Facebook memorial page – he’d taken his life just months before. I reluctantly sent a message to his mom. She told me she didn’t believe my story, was afraid of being preyed on by phony psychics, yet still felt “great relief” that she couldn’t explain. So, nonetheless I was happy I did it. I’ve recognized objects, also, and I spied on a roommate and identified what he was wearing in his bedroom and what he was doing (meditating on the floor).
Roberta: Have you ever met other astral travellers during your OBE’s?
Cyrus: Not precisely. However, I sometimes appear in the replica of our old family home. I’ve seen my (living) dad in his bedroom dreaming (talking to himself). Clearly, he was asleep at that time at his home in Arizona and that’s where his astral body appeared. I’ve asked him if he had any strange dreams about the old home and if he saw me in the home trying to get his attention, and he confirmed being there and seeing me in the room with him.
Roberta: Robert Bruce, a fellow astral traveller, talks about the existence of evil spirits and demonic entities out in the astral (e.g. see his Skeptiko interview here: http://skeptiko.com/out-of-body-experien...ted-world/). He even talks about coming under "full demonic attack and full possession" in his waking life, and of freeing himself from that possession. Do you recognise the existence of evil spirts and demonic entities too, and of the possibility of being attacked or possessed by them, and have you ever encountered them in your own astral travels?
Cyrus: Yes, and I found Bruce’s accounts to be curious. It made me wonder if he’s using proper mental protections.
The near-earth astral appears to be a zoo. And I had an entity once “attack” me, using my mind to conjure my innermost fears to create the most terrifying possible representation of itself. It placed those images into my mind while trying to command me to bow and submit before it.
Problem is, I know how the game works. Nothing can harm you without consent, so “demons” try to trick you into giving them consent. I resisted the fear and told it “Nice try.” I even complimented it on the expert hallucination it created (it was very frightening). Because I am a little macabre, I appreciate good horror. In fact, the grotesque demonic creature it produced in my mind inspired some cool sci-fi / horror stories that I later wrote.
This type of positive reaction completely threw it off. It didn’t even know how to proceed forward, so it ran away and never bothered me again. Now it’s just a fun story.
I’ve also encountered disturbed entities. In my home, a woman sometimes wails out, wanting forgiveness. Poor woman, I hope she heals and finds help.
Roberta: Some people are afraid of trying astral travelling either because they think they might be attacked by negative entities, or because they might not be able to get back to their bodies. In your opinion, are either of these fears valid? In particular, is it possible that whilst a person is astral travelling, a malevolent entity might block that person's re-entry to his/her body, leaving that person permanently stuck in the astral?
Cyrus: The second fear is NOT valid. The biggest challenge is NOT returning to your body. You’re constantly being drawn back in.
The first fear IS valid. And I recognize that possession COULD be possible if you are drawing in a lot of malevolent humans or non-human demons.
I don’t suggest going into this area unless you’re firstly in a good mood and additionally do not suffer from a lot of personal, psychological issues.
Roberta: Do other areas of afterlife research, such as reincarnation, NDE’s, other psi research and so on, match up with your experiences? Are there any differences?
Cyrus: I’ve never experienced “the Light” from NDEs or anything similar, but a couple of times I’ve recognized myself as being in a “higher” realm which could match up to places people see during NDEs, which are rather more exalted and beautiful than where we are now.
The very concept of being in an astral body obviously matches up with everything else. Not everyone reports being a non physical glob or pure consciousness during their NDEs. Many say they’re back at Grandma’s house or in some beautiful forest. Well, if so, how does that work? How could they be in a body again? The answer is they’re in their replica body that’s taken a temporary trip out of town.
Life in the astral states matches up 100% with everything reported in spiritualist writing or everything the deceased constantly report from mediums. For instance, everyone talks telepathically, people can create or manipulate matter with their thoughts, most people look in their prime (late 20s or early 30s). It’s also a lot more fun and cheerful than gloomy Earth life. Hope you like parties.
Finally, experiences with my mom matches up the same as any NDE when a deceased loved one enters the room and visits. These are no less transformational.
Roberta: You wrote about a mediumship reading you had with Susanne Wilson as a guestpost in Michael Prescott's blog that was very striking, what can you tell us about that? And did any details from the reading relate to your OBE’s in anyway or come up afterwards? (Cyrus's post can be found at this link - http://michaelprescott.typepad.com/micha...ilson.html)
Cyrus: Yes, this was the highlight that I reported. When my mom first visited me by materializing into my room, she laid next to me and touched me on my abdomen area. Susanne said during her reading, “Your mom wants to know if you felt it when she touched you on the abdomen. She’s telling me that they taught her that physical touch is an important way for us to remember them.”
Also, after my mom passed, I visited her in a hospital “rehab” type center for the newly deceased. This was, in particular, a kind of mental rehabilitation center. I met a nurse who was taking care of my mom. When my mom came through, she was alongside a nurse, confirming that experience. Susanne was able to identify this nurse’s name, as well.
I remember an early astral experience when I was recovering in a hospital from a serious injury. I encountered these two Egyptian twins who reassured my safety during my ordeal. For years, I wondered who they were and my relation. I asked Susanne about any Egyptian guides, and she identified that I had twin sister spirit guides dating back to some past life I apparently had. Not bad!
As a side-note, the twins explained they were, together, the goddess(es) of the Nile crocodile. This I found extremely interesting. Susanne, unfortunately, did not confirm that bit.
Roberta: Tell us about your book ‘Understanding Life After Death: An Exploration of What Awaits You, Me and Everyone We've Ever Known’ – what’s it about and where can you buy it?
Cyrus: This 2015 book is about a complete rundown of the evidence for life after death, from a critically minded perspective. The book then goes into my personal experiences, encounters with the beyond, the work of physical medium Leslie Flint, and finally conclusions about the afterlife, including a somewhat controversial chapter where I debunk myths often propagated by pop-spirituality and New Age communities. You can find the book on Amazon. If you have trouble finding it, go to www.afterlifetopics.com and click on the link there.
Robera: Finally, how can people have OBE’s themselves? What advice, do’s and don’ts etc would you give them?
Cyrus: Some of it may be a mental shift. This is why I feel certain people can achieve OBEs easily while others struggle. Personally, I believe the mere act of researching the afterlife and out of body states and being open to it is enough to put a signal into your mind that it’s OK to go out of body.
Otherwise, practice sleep states. The key for me is to remain conscious as my body enters into sleep. Practicing being as lucid and clear as possible allows you to gain control over your mind. Suddenly, you’ll be looking through your astral eyes in your bedroom while your normal eyes are shut, moving your astral limbs, or having dreams melt away into real environments with real people.
Roberta: Thanks very much for taking the time to speak to us Cyrus!
(This post was last modified: 2019-01-03, 08:21 PM by Ninshub.)
Roberta: Hi Cyrus! Thanks for joining us on Psiencequest, how are you doing today?
Cyrus: Hi. I’m glad to be here.
Roberta: The first thing we want to ask is you is to tell us a little about yourself. How did you start having OBE’s?
Cyrus: OBEs began to occur spontaneously only in 2014. They became frequent enough that by the summer I knew I had to chronicle my journals in what was my upcoming book (“Understanding Life After Death”). I’d been an afterlife researcher and writer long before that time, but these experiences allowed me to begin having “supernatural” experiences on a regular basis.
A little about me: I’m a freelance writer and editor who currently lives in Culver City, CA. I’m 31 years-old. In a field where it seems like the median age is 65, people often call me a young ‘un. I’ve been interested in life after death since I was only 12 or 13 years-old. Nothing spurred this on, just an unending desire to understand what happens after “death” inevitably claims us.
Roberta: How regularly do you have OBE’s and what’s the process like?
Cyrus: OBEs can be taxing mentally. I started having many at night during my normal sleep cycle, but then I started mentally blocking it from occurring as I wanted to just rest without crazy things happening.
Normally, if I desire an OBE, I’ll do a “midday nap.” Especially if I’m not that tired ahead of time. The process of laying down, closing my eyes and beginning to drift off generally stops at the point my body is going to sleep while my mind doesn’t. Suddenly, I can move my astral limbs out of my normal limbs and I’m OOB.
Roberta: Many people say lucid dreams and OBE’s are similar - what do you see as the essential differences between a lucid dream and an out of body experience? Can you go to the same places with both?
Cyrus: Lucid dreams can definitely become OBEs. The difference is that a lucid dream state is a reality clearly generated by your own mind. You can shape everything around you or create synthetic entities to interact with. (For instance, many lucid dreamers create sexual experiences with their celebrity crushes). From an OOB standpoint, I’ve seen other people dreaming. For instance, in the OOB state I’ve seen my roommate in our house. He’ll be standing six feet away from his bed mumbling to himself (in his astral body), reaching his arms out like a sleepwalker. This is him dreaming, in his own little world, whereas I’m still in the objective reality.
I think these realities are tied in to each other. The astral world is more “loose” physically than our world. It’s possible to shape the environment to some extent with your mind. Even to create an object with your thoughts (conjuration). But it’s harder and your environment is shared by other with real people (just like here), so even if you could create Godzilla to trample the city (which you can’t) – you probably wouldn’t want to hurt or destroy other people’s lives. In my own experience, the mental powers are possible on the astral, but many people still lead fairly “normal” lives – it’s not a bunch of chaos with things constantly being created or the environment in constant flux. People live in houses, go to jobs, travel, party, explore, etc.
A lucid dream is an inner-world, a demi-plane existing entirely within your mind where indeed anything CAN happen “safely” as there is no other independent souls in that video-game like realm. Reportedly some of us can enter other people’s dreamscapes, or even construct environments for particular purposes, much like the movie “The Matrix.”
Roberta: Jurgen Ziewe, whose experience seems more with lucid dreams than astral project as such, saying that when you enter the immediate astral, you enter a realm which is *almost* identical to the physical but not *quite* - some details will be slightly different. You might find a vase of flowers on a table which in the real world is empty, for example. If I recall correctly, he seems to understand that there are "concentric" realms out from the physical, which differ more and more from the physical the further out they go. Does this perspective match your experience too?
Cyrus: Firstly, it’s rather controversial to say Jurgen’s experiences are lucid dreams. I am certain he’d disagree. At the same time, an OBEr runs the risk of confusing the two, which also creates misinformation about the astral world (if what one saw were merely things one’s subconscious was creating). Jurgen has protocols in place to guarantee it’s not a dream, and he’s better at these protocols than I am, as I’ve been fooled before. If you’re untrained (and I’m not fully trained) dream-field hallucinations will invade your experience and you’ll begin seeing obvious nonsense from your inner mental-world that I don’t believe other people can see or interact with.
Now, as for the identical-but-different phenomena; yes. The near-earth astral is a copy-and-paste replica of the entire planet. But once you copy and paste the program and it begins running separately, it’s going to inevitably change as it modifies and operates independently. If I go OOB in my bedroom, I’m now in a new dimension that’s still closely linked.
As an example, I may see physical matter from THIS side intermixed with astral matter. So my hand will go through my desk and nightlamp, but it will touch and grab a candle (that only exists on that side). Sometimes, I will grab an object and find two separate objects tethered to each other. So I’ll pull the astral replica of my pillow up out of the Earth-matter pillow, which will remain (and be impervious to touch), meanwhile I am touching and handling its astral counterpart. It would seem matter has astral replicas as with our own bodies.
Further, if I were to pull the astral replica pillow out and toss it across the room, if I were to go OOB 2 days later, I’d still find the pillow laying where I threw it, thus noting the consistency of this environment.
Roberta: What are the most striking OBE’s you’ve had?
Cyrus: I’ve been to other realms, temples, cities, crowded urban areas, and I’ve sat with my mom (deceased in 2016) and eaten cake with her, and I’ve had her visit me in my room, where she comes to that replica environment and sits next to me and we can talk normally. That’s what really matters.
Striking OBEs also includes the most basic episodes, where I am in my bed and pulling my astral limbs out of my body. I can maintain this state the longest (even hours if I wish) just playing with my astral limbs while lying there. Of course, it gets boring after a while, but knowing in a 100% lucid state that I’m in a parallel body that will, someday after I’m dead, be my new primary body, is extremely relieving.
Roberta: Have you ever brought back veridical information from your OBE’s? If so, can you tell us a little about it?
Cyrus: Yes, one time I met a young man working at a bar for MMA enthusiasts. He told me his story - that he was from Arizona, and how he died recently. Plus he told me his full name after I asked for it. I told him I’d look him up when I returned (and his reaction was basically “WTF? Really?”). I did and found his Facebook memorial page – he’d taken his life just months before. I reluctantly sent a message to his mom. She told me she didn’t believe my story, was afraid of being preyed on by phony psychics, yet still felt “great relief” that she couldn’t explain. So, nonetheless I was happy I did it. I’ve recognized objects, also, and I spied on a roommate and identified what he was wearing in his bedroom and what he was doing (meditating on the floor).
Roberta: Have you ever met other astral travellers during your OBE’s?
Cyrus: Not precisely. However, I sometimes appear in the replica of our old family home. I’ve seen my (living) dad in his bedroom dreaming (talking to himself). Clearly, he was asleep at that time at his home in Arizona and that’s where his astral body appeared. I’ve asked him if he had any strange dreams about the old home and if he saw me in the home trying to get his attention, and he confirmed being there and seeing me in the room with him.
Roberta: Robert Bruce, a fellow astral traveller, talks about the existence of evil spirits and demonic entities out in the astral (e.g. see his Skeptiko interview here: http://skeptiko.com/out-of-body-experien...ted-world/). He even talks about coming under "full demonic attack and full possession" in his waking life, and of freeing himself from that possession. Do you recognise the existence of evil spirts and demonic entities too, and of the possibility of being attacked or possessed by them, and have you ever encountered them in your own astral travels?
Cyrus: Yes, and I found Bruce’s accounts to be curious. It made me wonder if he’s using proper mental protections.
The near-earth astral appears to be a zoo. And I had an entity once “attack” me, using my mind to conjure my innermost fears to create the most terrifying possible representation of itself. It placed those images into my mind while trying to command me to bow and submit before it.
Problem is, I know how the game works. Nothing can harm you without consent, so “demons” try to trick you into giving them consent. I resisted the fear and told it “Nice try.” I even complimented it on the expert hallucination it created (it was very frightening). Because I am a little macabre, I appreciate good horror. In fact, the grotesque demonic creature it produced in my mind inspired some cool sci-fi / horror stories that I later wrote.
This type of positive reaction completely threw it off. It didn’t even know how to proceed forward, so it ran away and never bothered me again. Now it’s just a fun story.
I’ve also encountered disturbed entities. In my home, a woman sometimes wails out, wanting forgiveness. Poor woman, I hope she heals and finds help.
Roberta: Some people are afraid of trying astral travelling either because they think they might be attacked by negative entities, or because they might not be able to get back to their bodies. In your opinion, are either of these fears valid? In particular, is it possible that whilst a person is astral travelling, a malevolent entity might block that person's re-entry to his/her body, leaving that person permanently stuck in the astral?
Cyrus: The second fear is NOT valid. The biggest challenge is NOT returning to your body. You’re constantly being drawn back in.
The first fear IS valid. And I recognize that possession COULD be possible if you are drawing in a lot of malevolent humans or non-human demons.
I don’t suggest going into this area unless you’re firstly in a good mood and additionally do not suffer from a lot of personal, psychological issues.
Roberta: Do other areas of afterlife research, such as reincarnation, NDE’s, other psi research and so on, match up with your experiences? Are there any differences?
Cyrus: I’ve never experienced “the Light” from NDEs or anything similar, but a couple of times I’ve recognized myself as being in a “higher” realm which could match up to places people see during NDEs, which are rather more exalted and beautiful than where we are now.
The very concept of being in an astral body obviously matches up with everything else. Not everyone reports being a non physical glob or pure consciousness during their NDEs. Many say they’re back at Grandma’s house or in some beautiful forest. Well, if so, how does that work? How could they be in a body again? The answer is they’re in their replica body that’s taken a temporary trip out of town.
Life in the astral states matches up 100% with everything reported in spiritualist writing or everything the deceased constantly report from mediums. For instance, everyone talks telepathically, people can create or manipulate matter with their thoughts, most people look in their prime (late 20s or early 30s). It’s also a lot more fun and cheerful than gloomy Earth life. Hope you like parties.
Finally, experiences with my mom matches up the same as any NDE when a deceased loved one enters the room and visits. These are no less transformational.
Roberta: You wrote about a mediumship reading you had with Susanne Wilson as a guestpost in Michael Prescott's blog that was very striking, what can you tell us about that? And did any details from the reading relate to your OBE’s in anyway or come up afterwards? (Cyrus's post can be found at this link - http://michaelprescott.typepad.com/micha...ilson.html)
Cyrus: Yes, this was the highlight that I reported. When my mom first visited me by materializing into my room, she laid next to me and touched me on my abdomen area. Susanne said during her reading, “Your mom wants to know if you felt it when she touched you on the abdomen. She’s telling me that they taught her that physical touch is an important way for us to remember them.”
Also, after my mom passed, I visited her in a hospital “rehab” type center for the newly deceased. This was, in particular, a kind of mental rehabilitation center. I met a nurse who was taking care of my mom. When my mom came through, she was alongside a nurse, confirming that experience. Susanne was able to identify this nurse’s name, as well.
I remember an early astral experience when I was recovering in a hospital from a serious injury. I encountered these two Egyptian twins who reassured my safety during my ordeal. For years, I wondered who they were and my relation. I asked Susanne about any Egyptian guides, and she identified that I had twin sister spirit guides dating back to some past life I apparently had. Not bad!
As a side-note, the twins explained they were, together, the goddess(es) of the Nile crocodile. This I found extremely interesting. Susanne, unfortunately, did not confirm that bit.
Roberta: Tell us about your book ‘Understanding Life After Death: An Exploration of What Awaits You, Me and Everyone We've Ever Known’ – what’s it about and where can you buy it?
Cyrus: This 2015 book is about a complete rundown of the evidence for life after death, from a critically minded perspective. The book then goes into my personal experiences, encounters with the beyond, the work of physical medium Leslie Flint, and finally conclusions about the afterlife, including a somewhat controversial chapter where I debunk myths often propagated by pop-spirituality and New Age communities. You can find the book on Amazon. If you have trouble finding it, go to www.afterlifetopics.com and click on the link there.
Robera: Finally, how can people have OBE’s themselves? What advice, do’s and don’ts etc would you give them?
Cyrus: Some of it may be a mental shift. This is why I feel certain people can achieve OBEs easily while others struggle. Personally, I believe the mere act of researching the afterlife and out of body states and being open to it is enough to put a signal into your mind that it’s OK to go out of body.
Otherwise, practice sleep states. The key for me is to remain conscious as my body enters into sleep. Practicing being as lucid and clear as possible allows you to gain control over your mind. Suddenly, you’ll be looking through your astral eyes in your bedroom while your normal eyes are shut, moving your astral limbs, or having dreams melt away into real environments with real people.
Roberta: Thanks very much for taking the time to speak to us Cyrus!
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