Physicalism Redux

Paul had a very good reply in post 36. In a sense I do think science has the higher ground because of all of the advances it has made revealing nature's mysteries. If only philosophy could progress in such away.

But this is a fallacy Steve.

Lots of scientific theories thought to hold the same "high ground" only to later be found as false or more aptly NOT predictive of future knowledge.

You aren't standing on a mountain top; its merely your perception that as you look out at the rest of us it "feels" like you are on higher ground.  You aren't.  You're in the muck with the rest of us who are trying to wrestle these things to the ground.

Paul had a very good reply in post 36. In a sense I do think science has the higher ground because of all of the advances it has made revealing nature's mysteries. If only philosophy could progress in such away.

Hmmm, it makes me wonder what scientists have to say...

Nobel prize winners who believed in some paranormal phenomenon because of their own research, the research of others or their own experiences.

https://sites.google.com/site/chs4o8pt/e...esearchers (quotes and references at the link)

• Max Planck: Believed consciousness is fundamental ie it is not produced by matter
  
• Erwin Schrödinger: Believed consciousness is fundamental ie it is not produced by matter
  
• Wolfgang Pauli: Believed in the Pauli effect, his own powers of PK that could damage experimental apparatus.
  
• Otto Stern: Believed in the Pauli effect and banned Pauli from his lab..
  
• Albert Einstein: Natural laws were designed by God
  
• J. J. Thomson: Believed in psychic phenomenon
  
• Brian D. Josephson Believed in ESP
  
• Charles Robert Richet: Believed in premonitions, ectoplasm, telekinesis, and cryptesthesia
  
• John William Strutt: President of the Society for Psychical Research
  
• Marie Curie Studied physical mediumship trying to find an explanation for radioactivity.
  
• Pierre Curie Believed physical mediumship could not be explained by normal means.
  
• Eugene Wigner Believed consciousness is fundamental.
  
• John Eccles: Believed humans are spiritual beings with souls.
  
• Arno Penzias: Believed the universe was created according to a supernatural plan.
  
• Charles Townes: Believed God is necessary to explain the origin of the universe.
  

Non Nobelists but worth mentioning:

• Charles Darwin: Believed natural laws were designed.
  
• Kurt Gödel: Believed humans are spiritual beings with a soul.
  
• Sir Fred Hoyle: Believed the universe was fine tuned by an intelligence and that life arose and evolved through intelligent design.
  
• John von Neumann: Believed in God.
  
• Alan Turing: Believed in ESP
  
• Wernher von Braun: Believed in life after death
  
• David Bohm: Believed in morphogenetic fields, psychokinesis, and panpsychicsm.
  
• Karl Popper: Believed in interactionist dualism.
  
• Sir Robert Boyle: Believed in Spiritual healing.
  

more at the link https://sites.google.com/site/chs4o8pt/e...esearchers
 

It doesn't seem like scientists are exclusively physicalists....I mean nothing I've ever read has convinced me that Physicalism is true.

I am willing to suspend my belief that Physicalism is completely nonsensical - a view shared by Neuroscience PhD & New Atheist Horseman Sam Harris btw - if you can explain how matter that has no mental character ends up producing minds.

If you have already provided it, feel free to paste it here and we'll see if I find it satisfactory.

But this is a fallacy Steve.

Lots of scientific theories thought to hold the same "high ground" only to later be found as false or more aptly NOT predictive of future knowledge.

You aren't standing on a mountain top; its merely your perception that as you look out at the rest of us it "feels" like you are on higher ground.  You aren't.  You're in the muck with the rest of us who are trying to wrestle these things to the ground.

I also wonder what exactly would change regarding Science if Idealism was true and the grounding of reality was mental?

Or if this reality is really just the Matrix, and the world beyond the Matrix perhaps is a place where macro-PK and mediumship happens on the daily to millions of people.

Or if this reality is really just the Matrix, and the world beyond the Matrix perhaps is a place where macro-PK and mediumship happens on the daily to millions of people.

Or in the world beyond a satisfactory explanation might be understood for the process of a non-deterministic, non-chance free choice could be make by a conscious agent?

Hmmm, it makes me wonder what scientists have to say...



It doesn't seem like scientists are exclusively physicalists....I mean nothing I've ever read has convinced me that Physicalism is true.

I am willing to suspend my belief that Physicalism is completely nonsensical - a view shared by Neuroscience PhD & New Atheist Horseman Sam Harris btw - if you can explain how matter that has no mental character ends up producing minds.

If you have already provided it, feel free to paste it here and we'll see if I find it satisfactory.

There must be a curse on scientists who reject  materialism... They almost all appear to be dead.

There must be a curse on scientists who reject  materialism... They all appear to be dead.

Sam Harris died?

Brian Josephson?

Lee Smolin?

....I can keep making this list if you want....

But still seems like no one here can provide an explanation that I find satisfactory so I guess Physicalism is false...

Or in the world beyond a satisfactory explanation might be understood for the process of a non-deterministic, non-chance free choice could be make by a conscious agent?

Heheheh....depends on who is needing be satisfied...

There must be a curse on scientists who reject  materialism... They all appear to be dead.

Not according to Bruce Greyson's upcoming book apparently.

There must be a curse on scientists who reject  materialism... They almost all appear to be dead.

Apologies. Edited.

Apologies. Edited.

I would imagine the ratio of materialists to non-materialists among scientists is similar to that of non scientists given that science cannot prove the non-existence of the non-material and also doesn't claim to be able to do so.