Paranormal Experiences Come From Another Dimension, Claims Scientist

When Science and Mysticism Merge

Adam Jacobs: Let me start with this. In a periodical called Peri Perspectives, there's a wonderful article called Towards a Trans-Materialist Science of the Sacred, and there's a quote that I really liked that says, “The degree to which we focus on each of these worlds (and the worlds that you're referring to are sciences, humanities, and religious studies.) So they inevitably vary, but it's very important for both individuals and humanity as a whole to embrace them all because they are all sacred.” So, first of all, I relate to that very much. It strikes me as very critical and insightful, but I'm curious, what do you mean? What do you mean by saying that the humanities are sacred and science is sacred, and how do you understand the connection between all those ideas?

Bernard Carr: Well, first of all, I suppose my general fascination is with the three worlds of Matter, mind, and spirit. Those three worlds have various aspects, and in particular, what you were quoting there were, if you like, the three academic aspects of those three worlds. So, in academia, you have the sciences, you have the humanities, and you have religious studies. So that's what you were quoting. But I would say the remark is actually more general to the three worlds of matter, mind, and spirit. Because you don't often think of it as academic studies, I mean, you don't normally think of academic studies as being particularly sacred.
So, it might seem a bit odd to talk about academic studies as being sacred. So then the question is, in what sense are these three worlds sacred? Well, I suppose, let me go back a bit because what is particularly fascinating to me is the problem of consciousness. And, of course, the view some people take is that, well, the material world has nothing to do with consciousness. Consciousness has to do with the world of mind and maybe the world of spirit. But that's a view I disagree with because it seems to me that consciousness is fundamental to all three worlds.

Consciousness underlies our understanding of the physical world, not just the mental world because our understanding of the nature of matter comes from a mental model. A paradigm of physics is really a mental model. And so there are all sorts of arguments to say that, in fact, consciousness is fundamental even to the material world. So it's a mistake to think that consciousness is just there in the mental world, it's in all three worlds. Indeed, consciousness, in my perspective at least, is what links all three worlds now, going from consciousness to sacred.

Adam Jacobs: Right. I was going to ask you about that...