"Encouragement"

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I’ve been working through my various emotional issues for a number of months now and feel like I’ve managed to whittle things down to what is probably my very core issue. My relationship with power. In short, I’m constantly scared that I don’t have enough, which comes from a myriad of personal experiences where that seemed to be the case. This is strongly intertwined with my issues regarding other people’s suffering, which stems from my general hatred and rejection of reality, which I blame for all of it. Rejecting, specifically, reality’s apparent chaoticness and arbitrary limitations which leads to needless, unjustifiable suffering and overall torment for every living thing.

My entire reason for caring about magic sources from a single moment, very early in my existence, where in short, I was a starving child looking for food who had a realiztion that “this is just how it is” and then I snapped and rejected that entire premise simply because I didn’t like it for how unfair it was. Which, ever since then, even through induced amnesia, has left me with a undying desire to fight against reality. Which translated almost exclusively into fighting against any sort of oppression and seeking greater and greater power and skill through magic. Through a large amount of experience stemming from that, I’ve come to believe that power is everything.

However the psychological damage I’ve incurred through trying to save people from what I see as unjust suffering to prevent them from “becoming like me” has taken its toll not just on me, but on all the people closest to me as well. I’ve learned that my view on power is logically incoherent at this stage, that I need to get to the point where I no longer care about it. This has proven so far to be impossible. It’s true that no matter how much power you have, you never have any at all. Thus even in my current, physically disabled, non magical state, I’m no different than I would be if I had full access to my abilities. And thus even if I did suddenly start getting my magic to work physically, the same cycle would just repeat. I’d feel compelled to help other people because I can’t not see myself in them even when I try not to. I’d inevitably fail at some point, and blame myself for it, and vow to gain more power to prevent it from happening again. I’d take on tougher and tougher things, and make further mistakes, continue blaming myself, and continue seeking more power. Until I’d just snowball back into the same state I was before I incarnated here. Where the lengths I would go to to try saving and protecting other people become outright psychotic and suicidal and I started yo-yoing between the extremes of caring and not caring about others or myself. My ongoing attempts to break this pattern is what led to my decision at the end of Extraction.

As logically true as this is, I’m not any closer to processing this than when I started. My entire reason for seeking power comes from my rejection of the conclusion that power is illusory and that ultimately everything is due to random chance and external factors outside of my control. I reject the logic on principle, and will never become someone who “accepts” my lack of control, nor would I want anyone else to dehumanize themselves to such a degree. Despite this I know there’s some pathway towards integration that I just haven’t found yet.

However I’m writing this post for another reason, in that some of my recent seethings about reality and life reminded me of something very important that I’d forgotten about from earlier in this life when a lot of the paranormal stuff started for me. In short, pretty much everything that I’ve gone though ultimately sources back to one single person, whom I give the psuedonym Copper. She’s someone whom I’ve known in one way or another for an incredibly long period of time long before this life, and to say we don’t like each other is a grand understatement. Copper holds a major grudge against me, and in addition to lots and lots of stuff she did, not just to me but to Teal as well, she made it incredibly, explicitly clear that she wasn’t interested in killing me, she wanted to break my spirit and psychologically destroy me. And recently I couldn’t help but notice that the difficulties I’ve been having are almost exactly what she described wanting to put me through. At least the very early stages of it.

Now, I don’t actually think she’s responsible for any of that, she’s sort of been a non issue for a number of years now. But at the same time there’s a lot of reasons to think its at least possible that maybe she’s indirectly responsible for some parts of some things. But that’s going to require some explanation. I know I’ve mentioned Copper on this site before and mentioned in general that she’s incredibly significant in all of this, but I don’t think I’ve ever explained, in detail, why that is. So lets start from what she’s done in this life and maybe move on to the past context another time. What I will say about our past for now is that its a very long one and its been highly antagonistic pretty much the whole time.

The first time Copper showed up in this life that can confirm was a projection that I was forcibly pulled into in April 2010 by a spirt thing I nicknamed Wrath which had attempted to torment me via induced dreams for two weeks, night after night, in January of that year. After killing Wrath twice, during the very first dream of the series which was uniquely a “hyperlucid” dream, the first I’ve ever had. Killing it again at the end of the two weeks when I’d developed countermeasures to some of its seemingly psychic abilities, namely to forcibly induce emotions and paralyze.

Copper showed up during the encounter, protecting and seemingly working with Wrath, as well as trying to support Wrath’s story that really he was actually a spirit guide of mine, which I naturally didn’t believe. The encounter ended with her stabbing me through he heart from behind and slashing me down my back. Finishing with beheading me. When this threw me out of the projection, lesser versions of those injuring appeared on my body and made me confused as surely all of that had been in my mind and was just a bizarrely powerful for of daydream. This was the very first instance of teh Krueger Effect, specifically Type A.

Copper later showed up again, almost as an apparition though I knew I was only seeing her in my mind, and attempted to order me to perform a neutral task that I won’t describe here. During this I felt a subtle buzzing in the back of my head near the base of my skull and a strong, unnatural compulsion to do what she said. But seemingly because of this I continually asked her questions about why I was suppiosed to do it and it took me awhile before I finally complied. The next day she pulled me into another projection where she attacked me, seemingly because her attempts at manipualtion the day before had failed. I was able to get out because I got a text message, and the sound and maybe even the EMF helped me mentally tug myself out. I was left with physical grip marks on my throat from that encounter.

She pulled me into another projection and attacked me. A couple friends managed to intervene and we eventually drove her off. However she managed to seemingly inject Wrath directly into me, who proceded to destabilize me internally until I ended up finding and killing him for the last time (to date) in mid to late June or July 2010. I can’t remember the specific date, I only remember that it was notable because it was the last day of the Calgary Stampede for that year. I assume that’s how it happened because of odd things that happened after that encounter, specifically after one particular time she managed to stab me and the look she had in her eyes and how she was holding her hand after she pulled away. It just seemed strange to me. Ultimately I don’t really know and have no way to really prove it, but that’s what I go with.

She hijacked numerous projections and dreams of mine to try manipulating me or to attack me. It was during these that she told me explicitly that she wanted me to suffer, not die.

She was apparently captured and detained by others under circumstances I’m not fully aware of. I projected and visited her one time, she claimed to have projected from her holding area to Teal to “check out the new girl” But claimed Teal might not experience it herself for a year or so. Which was a common claim by various spirits about their induced dreams or projections, that time was not truly synchronous between them and us. I would argue that this claim has more than a little evidence to back it up at this point. Like the time I learned elderberries were real. Despite never telling Teal about this she eventually described the dream that Copper had told me she’d sent and remarked that from her perspective it didn’t feel like Copper was fighting seriously but was just sort of messing around. The dream also occurred within the time range that Copper quoted me.

After this incident other people apparently made the decision to put Copper into a medically induced coma to prevent her from projecting or using any other form of magic while detained. Despite this she hijacked one last dream of mine. During an eleva tor ride in the dream with two soliders I felt the entire dream shift and the floor the doors opened on was not where it should have. Copper swiftly attacked the two soliders and killed them, then told me to relax because they were just constructs of the dream. She said she wasn’t there for a fight. When I asked her what the hell she wanted, she said that she was bored and just wanted to hang out. I was very anxious and totally on guard, but true to her word she never attacked and we did just sort of hang out in the same room together. Didn’t really talk much or anything.

Afterwads I informed my friends about this, to which they were surpised, saying that that shouldn’t’ve been possible due to the coma, but it happened anyways so they needed to take further measures. Making the decision to sealing her energy to prevent any and all magic along with keeping her in the coma. After this there’s been no direct incidences with her.

However there were a couple incidences with what seemed like contingency plans she left behind in case something like that were to happen to her. One pulled me into a projection in, I think march 2015 or so, I don’t remember exactly. It was a sort of holographic clone that seemed to contain a shard of her soul or something which seemed to activate due to some sort of criteria being met. This left me concerned that she had left herself a means to break herself out of “jail” in the even t she was captured. This anxiety persisted because I never really knew the circumstances of her alleged capture and have always wondered if it ever really happened or if it was just another illusion on her part to try to taking attention off of her so she could escape.

And now there’s now an ongoing situation that might be another one of these if not worse. About a month ago Teal’s tablet pen mysteriously went missing at a somewhat auspicious time. She absolutely needs that pen in order to do her art. She claims that the pen had been put in the spot it always goes and then it just disappeared, and despite tearing her whole room apart multiple times there’s no sign of it, and she was forced to order another pen. The main thing that makes me wonder if this could just be normal misplacement is that some changes from her normal routine were happening during the time the pen went missing and she has a historical tendency of misplacing things. Though she says that despite that she’d placed the pen back in the one spot it always is when she doesn’t use it and that its as if it just plain disappeared.

The second thing happened a couple days ago in the middle of the night, around 1am or so, as she got out of bed to tell me about it. Her heating pad which she says she needs in order to keep warm at night mysteriously lost its cloth cover that she has never removed, and furthermore, the electrical prongs were both bent inwards to a degree that made it impossible to plug in. Though she managed to wrench them back into a position where she could get it to plug back in, but the cloth cover was nowhere to be found, making the heating pad a little unsafe to use.

She was disturbed by this because there was absolutely no sound when this seemingly occurred, she said she noticed it because she had looked over at it laying on the floor and thought there was something odd about it. Furthermore neither of us felt any energy whatsoever. She interpreted this as meaning that something rather high level was involved, and noted that nothing has haunted us for a long time because “There’s a proven track record of what happens”. I.e, anything that’s been hostile around here has died. The fact that neither of us felt anything at all is part of why I wonder if there’s a more normal explanation for this. She tends to jump to conclusions faster than me and isn’t always correct so I wonder if the heating pad cover is really as missing as she believed at the time. It wouldn’t surprise me if she found it later and surmised that it just slipped off somehow. I’ve also had plugs seemingly bend inwards for no reason to the point they wouldn’t plug in again and it never seemed paranormal at all. Though not to the degree she described. However I do admit that it could also very easily mean that its just as she suspects, something that really knows what its doing, and knows how to mask and suppress its energy to avoid detection was involved. As its not just us it would have to fool.

Nonetheless I remained skeptical about it, and told myself that I’d wait and see if more things happened or especially if things started happening to me before deciding if there’s really anything paranormal happening.

Well yesterday I was reflecting on a recent comment of mine in another thread and how callous I was. Something about that jogged my memory back to what Copper had told me about how she wanted to break me and I couldn’t help but notice that I was starting to go down the exact path she said she wanted to push me down. I reflected on a lot of things, including my “past” memories of her and the many, many things she’s done to me and others. Thinking about how it has seemed like her desire was to totally erase “me”, or at least the me that still exists right now, by completely changing my entire worldview into something far more callous, sadistic and cruel. I.e, a worldview more like her own. And how this would be the ultimate humiliation not just to the current me, but my friends. As I would inevitably turn against them if I continued down this path, and Scarlet and Yellow in particular would likely become heartbroken and distraught at what I’d become as I’d never be able to return.

It made me reflect on my suspicions on Copper’s trauma’s that I think have contributed to the path she’s taken, and certain events where she very clearly has some sort of bizarre emotional attachment to me. A time where she tried to “help” me in her own incredibly sadistic, twisted way that I will probably never elaborate on that left me with a fear of women. I sort of felt sorry for her, despite everything she’s done. I found it rather ridiculous that I was willing to try and understand and forgive someone who has in the past directly committed genocide for fun, but I wasn’t willing to try and understand someone who still believed in voting. 

When I realized all this it sort of triggered something in me that made me vow to change myself back to who I really am and want to be, which is not someone who refuses to empathize with others. And this is what prompted me to start writing this post yesterday. I originally was going to include the entire history that I can remember about Copper but recent occurrences have made me change my plans on that. Sorry if this post seems a little janky because of that. I got concerned about my willingness to sympathize with her, as it seemed as though it could be a legitimate case of Stockholm Syndrome. So I decided I’d shelve any sympathy I might think I have for her for the moment.

I wondered how she’d react to me figuring this out if she was able to. On one hand I thought she’d be angry, but for some reason I felt as though she’d actually be happy and excited as now “the game can continue”. As if this was another one of those instances where she was trying to “help” me by trying to do this to me and me noticing and rejecting it would be good to her.

As I continued thinking about her and all this I started to feel a slowly increasing pressure about her, as if I in a sense couldn’t get her out of my feelings. Eventually I gave into this feeling and started imagining her and started talking to what I believed was just my own visualized concept of her as a means to work through the issues I was bringing up. Eventually i laid down on my bed for this, it was a very vivid visualation, the most vivid I’ve had in years. Then, during one exchange, she quipped “Oh, do you think this is just in you mind?” and pulled out a knife and pressed its tip into my chest, right over my heart, just a centimetre or so. Simultaneously, I felt the energy of it piecing into my physical body as the unmistakable Krueger Effect. This very, very much got my attention. She continued talking, keeping the knife in my chest. I tried reasoning to myself that this was still somehow just me talking to myself and maybe at most this was a sort of tulpa like situation. But she claimed it wasn’t the case and that she was basically doing this for pure intimidation and fun. Pushing the knife in a little deeper as I stammered along in the conversation. The effect on my physical body followed suit.

I couldn’t do anything about it, any move I’d make would’ve easily just had her shove the knife the rest of the way in before I could act so I just laid there and kept talking. She also did this to my throat, but she didn’t push that blade in nearly as far. She claimed she’d give me more proof that this is real in my dreams and in time and eventually she left. The Type B injuries lingered. I still don’t fully know what to make of it, the entity didn’t really feel like her, or at least it didn’t feel like all of her, it felt hollow, and as much as it’d be easy to say its another one of those shard clone things I just don’t know. It’s been hard to shake the idea that somehow it was still just my own mind or a tulpa like thing.

Well, although my dreams last night were a little more vivid they didn’t have anything in them that I’d call proof. However, today I had a  rather interesting Dungeons and Dragons session. I got into DnD a few months ago because I thought it might be a good idea to make a character that is more or less just me as a form of therapy, to see if roleplaying this character in a different environment in situations that are in a sense similar to things I know might help me work through certain things emotionally. And to that end it’s been surprisingly effective. I’m sure no one would be surprised that I made a wizard.

Well today's session just so happened to focus quite a lot on my character by design, something the DM apologized for at the end of the session. In this session my character ended up meeting up with his contact after an extended period outside of the city, who is a woman who seems to very clearly have a romantic interest in him, who also happens to be part of a local devil worshipping cult. It is not clear if she is genuine about this or if its more of a long con. However, based on the insight rolls and seemingly other things the DM has said, my character believes it to be genuine and it certainly seems to be. Well in this session she catches him up on all the crazy things that have been happening in the city since he’s been gone. He brings up the fact that property he’s recently come into now has imps around it, as one of them attacked and killed his familiar and was spotted by a member of the party for a split second doing so. The whole area is apparently unnaturally tainted now, which it wasn’t before. And my character asked her if she just so happened to know why that would be, given the whole devil worshipping thing and all. To which she denied any knowledge. Furthermore the two of them go on a date, where she gives him a statuette that causes him to have a very strange dream that night, where he’s asked by a very finely dressed man what his greatest desire is, To which my character responds “Power”. When he wakes up there’s a personally inscribed scoll tube with a powerful spell, written in infernal (which he can read).

When he goes back to her to fence a whole bunch of goods he brings up the strange dream and the scroll when they’re alone, to which she beams and explains how the statuette worked as a conduit to allow their patron to talk to him, and asks him if he’d like to come to the next meeting with her. To which my character basically feels like he has no choice but to, as he’s effectively entrapped, and refusal would very likely have severe consequences that he would be totally unable to resist.

Now, I’d really, really like to chalk this up to pure coincidence, but it’s just a little too metaphorically on the nose and timely for me to ignore completely. It doesn’t help that yesterday, when I got stabbed, was also halloween, just to add to all of it. And although I am treating it like pure coincidence for the moment I can’t deny that this is something that Copper is absolutely capable of doing and would totally do as an extra trollish means to unnerve me. Naturally I will not mention anything like this to the DM, though if he ever offhandedly mentions any strange feelings, dreams, compulsions, etc that he had in preparation for that session I will certainly take note of them.

So, yeah, I’m a little bit on edge right now and I suspect that my next few months are going to be rather interesting and possibly life and soul threatening. The wound on my chest still hurts quite a lot and sometimes makes it hard to breathe, and it feels as if it somehow pierced right through me, and out through my shoulder. As if there was a wispy residue of energy trailing off the tip of her knife, The wound on my throat feels mostly healed though. Somehow though I’m also excited for this as insane as that sounds. I can’t really explain it, but the prospect of having to fight her, even though I know I’m in no condition to, makes me feel like somehow progress is going to be made or something. Nonetheless I will see if I can keep you guys posted on this, I’m also hoping that this actually isn’t paranormal, though I feel like I’ve already passed that point.
"The cure for bad information is more information."
(This post was last modified: 2020-11-02, 09:15 PM by Mediochre.)
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Certainly interesting, but if it is such a weight on you maybe should go and see a professional to help you deal with it.
(2020-11-03, 01:29 AM)Smaw Wrote: Certainly interesting, but if it is such a weight on you maybe should go and see a professional to help you deal with it.

::EDIT:: Rewritten to be less mean and attacky.

I have done therapy before but since I can only talk about surface level things that have nothing to do with my core issues, and even if I brush up against those I need to talk vaguely and euphemistically and outright lie in some cases it was entirely useless.

There's no therapist out ther that I'd trust to not condemn me for being open and honest and who I wouldn't have to teach from wscratch about all the stuff I'd be talking about just so they'd have a basic but ultimately outsider understanding of things

It would not be helpful to be forced to constantly say "look I don't expect you to believe this but yes this happened" to everything you say, knowing that the other person is just going to look at you with their eyes glazed over just sort of going through the motions, and wondering at what point are they just going to prescribe you something to get you out of their office, if you're lucky. Since that's the best I can reasonably expect, why even bother?

There's also the technically possible but hopefully not an issue at this point problem that, if somehow Copper or some leftover thing really is involved, I'd be concerned about other people getting affected, however I don't think that will realistically be much of an issue in the way it may have been in the past..

I'm on my own with this until proven otherwise, though maybe writing some of this up also helps other people.

Also, I know you probably didn't mean it the way I've normally seen it, but personally I get really annoyed that the almost exclusively single thing that people generally come back with when someone talks about something like this that is maybe not so mainstream is "Go see a psychologist"

It just seems like the default reaction, like "Oh they experienced something I don't understand, clearly this person is mentally ill." Instead of any sort of genuine engagement. Personally it's such a non response I'd rather people say nothing than a canned Helpful(tm) brand response like that.
"The cure for bad information is more information."
(This post was last modified: 2020-11-03, 02:48 AM by Mediochre. Edit Reason: Rewritten to sound less mean )
(2020-11-03, 01:58 AM)Mediochre Wrote: ::EDIT:: Rewritten to be less mean and attacky.

I have done therapy before but since I can only talk about surface level things that have nothing to do with my core issues, and even if I brush up against those I need to talk vaguely and euphemistically and outright lie in some cases it was entirely useless.

There's no therapist out ther that I'd trust to not condemn me for being open and honest and who I wouldn't have to teach from wscratch about all the stuff I'd be talking about just so they'd have a basic but ultimately outsider understanding of things

It would not be helpful to be forced to constantly say "look I don't expect you to believe this but yes this happened" to everything you say, knowing that the other person is just going to look at you with their eyes glazed over just sort of going through the motions, and wondering at what point are they just going to prescribe you something to get you out of their office, if you're lucky. Since that's the best I can reasonably expect, why even bother?

There's also the technically possible but hopefully not an issue at this point problem that, if somehow Copper or some leftover thing really is involved, I'd be concerned about other people getting affected, however I don't think that will realistically be much of an issue in the way it may have been in the past..

I'm on my own with this until proven otherwise, though maybe writing some of this up also helps other people.

Also, I know you probably didn't mean it the way I've normally seen it, but personally I get really annoyed that the almost exclusively single thing that people generally come back with when someone talks about something like this that is maybe not so mainstream is "Go see a psychologist"

It just seems like the default reaction, like "Oh they experienced something I don't understand, clearly this person is mentally ill." Instead of any sort of genuine engagement. Personally it's such a non response I'd rather people say nothing than a canned Helpful(tm) brand response like that.


This also brings up another thing, in that one of my other motivations for attempting to develop magic was that I've met and talked to other people who've had paranormal experiences that seemed genuine who feel traumatised by them, or otherwise isolated. I was hoping that if I were able to get my abilities to something that was both easily demonstrable and practical I could help those people be able to get good psychological help. Since the stigma around those things would surely dissipate after that, over a period of time probably but still.

Furthermore, a lot of people are very scared to talk about their experiences as it is, and from what it sounds like there's a lot more "extreme" experiences like what I describe than what is reported. I think there might actually be some research on this, I know there was a study out of Finland about reports of paranormal experiences but that's not quite what I'm talking about if I remember correctly. I decided that I wanted to be someone willing to take the slings and shared my stuff and maybe give those people some comfort indirectly. But I'm crazy like that.
"The cure for bad information is more information."
(This post was last modified: 2020-11-03, 02:52 AM by Mediochre. Edit Reason: To quote teh less mean reply )
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I didn't mean to come off as dismissive, just that what you seemed to experience is really visceral and I don't know how much experience any of us has had with that kind of stuff. Might be best to try and find a group that might have dealt with the same kind of things before? Best someone like me can say is that it might not be AS paranormal as what you might think it is. I don't think you're going to just drop dead and die from what I read, but it might throw you around a bit mentally and emotionally. That's why I suggested talking to a professional as well, if you end up feeling like you need to.
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(2020-11-03, 06:01 AM)Smaw Wrote: I didn't mean to come off as dismissive, just that what you seemed to experience is really visceral and I don't know how much experience any of us has had with that kind of stuff. Might be best to try and find a group that might have dealt with the same kind of things before? Best someone like me can say is that it might not be AS paranormal as what you might think it is. I don't think you're going to just drop dead and die from what I read, but it might throw you around a bit mentally and emotionally. That's why I suggested talking to a professional as well, if you end up feeling like you need to.



It's understandable to think its purely psychological if its the first time someones hearing about it, especially if they have no experience with it personally let alone the decade's worth that I do, including my own study and experimentation as well as learning about the same phenomena showing up elsewhere. But before going into all that, the TL;DR of it is that, yes, it absolutely can kill someone and no, it is not a psychological phenomenon.

The Krueger Effect is, as stated above, my nickname for the phenomena, named after Freddy Krueger (which I previously misspelled Kruger) of Nightmare on Elm street fame. Which if you don't know, is a series of slasher horror movies revolving around the vengeful spirit of a paedophile who was killed in a fire seeking revenge via invading the dreams of the now adult would've-been victims... if I'm remembering all of that right. He is capable of manipulating their dreamscapes and most notably, capable of killing his victims via attacking their dream bodies, causing the identical wounds and effects to occur to their physical bodies.

It seemed like a natural choice for a name.

Ironically, I have not even once confirmed a case of the Krueger Effect occurring via my dreams. Every single instance, with the possible but unlikely exception of the incident linked later in this comment, were much like this most recent thing possibly involving Copper or something related to her, fully awake and aware.

It comes in two observed flavours, Type A and Type B

Type A leaves a physical wound which so far has always been of a lesser severity but identical make as the injury to teh spirit/astral/whatever-you-want-to-call-it body. The ratio of severity seems related to how deep into a projection you are, with the paradoxical exception of what I call "Full Transitions".

Type B does not leave any physical marks but acts as if it does. Causing effects ranging from loss of circulation, pain, numbness and paralysis to sudden weakening of the immune system and sudden acute fatigue, nausea, inflammation and other symptoms. This type appears to work via attacking and destroying the body's "energy" which is an entire other topic in itself that I'll onlty be going into briefly as needed. This, thankfully, makes Type B injuries somewhat easier to heal and highly unlikely to cause permanent damage. As energy automatically seeps back into wounds over time and fills them in, restoring function at the same rate,

However, Type B appears to be capable of becoming far more severe than Type A with not all that much extra effort. This makes it incredibly dangerous.

Now, technically I should really say that it "almost certainly" can kill someone because technically I never died of it and therefore technically I don't know for absolute sure if it really could kill someone. But I don't need to extrapolate very far to get to that conclusion. The best personal example (that I have written up on here) is The Mother's Day Incident. Who's relevant TL;DR is that given what it did to my hand, especially the initial paralysis, it's reasonable to assume that had it managed to hit my heart the same effects would've occurred, and probably resulted in some sort of heart attack. And that's not evn the most life threatening injury I've had.

No, that award goes to the time that I got my right side ripped out and was gored through the stomach/mid torso area. During that my lungs, among other things, started to paralyze, I had blood seeping and pooling in the back of my mouth., and I could feel my energy haemorrhaging out of me from my right side I was starting to slip into an unconsciousness that was very clearly not sleep. Falling asleep feels warm and "full", this felt cold and empty, like I was just disappearing into nothingness. And no matter what I did or how much I didn't want it to happen I couldn't even slow the process down and got to the point where for a moment I just gave up and accepted that I was going to die. Before getting really angry that if I did then nothing would change and tried one last thing that barely worked to sort of almost patch me together enough to halt the process and keep going a bit. But that doesn't really matter, because the only reason I got the chance to do that was because the guy who'd attacked me was content to lean against the wall and watch me bleed out rather than finish me off, had he not done that, I'd be dead, period. And beyond that, even after I got out of that situation, without the first aid I got I probably  would've succumbed to my injuries anyways.

That even it is also why I decided to go all in and devote myself to developing magic physically in the first place, because fuck these people.

But hitting vital areas isn't the only way you could potentially die as I got to learn before I knew anything about the connection between energy and the body. As it turns out if your energy gets too low, your soul will lose its grip on your body and you'll just float away, as happened to me. I ended up getting saved by a kind person and literally surgically reattached to my body. And I know this happened for real and wasn't just in my mind, because a few months after I later found this person in real life, who, unprompted, wrote me an entire transcript of those events via private message on a forum one day because they'd recognised the feeling of my energy. and their transcript was totally correct. Unfortunately this person sort of went insane later seemingly because they thought too highly of themselves and all their creepily accurate transcripts of projections and such slowly started having errors and eventually became total fantasy.

I also learned how to induce the effect in other, physical people, and vice versa via projection which ruled out the possibility that the effect could've solely been a case of someone doing it to themselves or other Super-PSI explanations. As it turns out, doing that isn't as simple as just attacking or doing something to a persons projection, it requires you to sort of inject energy into them in a certain way as you do it. And though I've only been talking about this effect in terms of injuries, it ultimately is about any sort of effect transfer down to the physical body, inluding healing. I don't know how to give a good description of energy use because I don't know how else to describe it beyond just quoting direct sensations at this point. It's like trying to explain muscle tension or fatigue, everyone has muscles and so everyone understands what you mean when you say that. But that's not really the case with energy, even though anyone is capable of developing it and getting to that point.
But you also don't have to take my word on it, from what I've started to hear it sounds like there's other people who've encountered this effect, potentially also via dreams, and there may have been som research done on it though I haven't looked into it myself. Just offhand things I've heard during interviews on New thinking Allowed. And speaking of that, the idea that either this effect or at least something like this could be used to kill someone was discussed by Lyn Buchanan during an NTA interview. To paraphrase, when he was asked if it was possible to stop a heart with your mind he replied that not only is it possible, it's also very easy. Techncailly I'm not sure if what he's talking about would've used the Krueger Effect as I've defined it, though I suspect it did, but nonetheless that's what he said. Here's the full interview for reference:



Now as much as I am not going to expect anyone to believe anything I've said, I am certainly putting this out there because I certainly have a lot of reasons to take things as seriously as I do, even if I have no objective way of demonstrating that to others at the moment.
"The cure for bad information is more information."
(This post was last modified: 2020-11-03, 09:08 PM by Mediochre.)
Well have you gone to a doctor to get yourself checked if you're alright, physically? If you are taking real tangible damage it might be an idea.
(2020-11-03, 09:53 PM)Smaw Wrote: Well have you gone to a doctor to get yourself checked if you're alright, physically? If you are taking real tangible damage it might be an idea.


Not for this round, things have recovered more than enough. And in the past I was too concerned about things happening to other people and refused, sine I wasn't sure how I'd explain it. And since none of the effects persisted in a serious form for too long I never really felt it was a good idea.

Though a heart condition did occur at one point that had a seeming connection to this and did show up in an MRI scan which surprised the doctor, since it showed that I had a nerve with degenerative function in my spine which was connected to my heart  but there was no slipped disc or normal thing that would explain it, and I was a very healthy athletic person in their late 20's who didn't smoke or drink or anything which made it very concerning. This condition got bad to the point where I couldn't walk more than 10 feet before becoming out of breath.

This one isn't really tied directly to the Krueger Effect though, it was a failsafe I'd put in myself before incarnating to prevent me from living past age 30 which I'd then wanted removed so I could continue trying to achieve my goal of developing magic under what are probably the harshest conditions I've ever. Especially since I'd made amazing progress and really only had the final integration to do, and it would be a shame to die before that. Though now that things have dragged on because of all my emotional stuff that I wasn't working through I sometimes regret that. But I thought it was funny how Yellow (psuedonym), the person who removed the failsafe for me put it when she was asking me if I really wanted to go through with it.

She went "Okay, now one of two things is going to happen here. Either A: your body will slowly recover and everything will be fine. Or B: Your body will slowly start to recover... but at some point it will take a sudden turn for the worst because the rune has been in there so long it doesn't know how to adapt with it gone and you'll die a slow, horrible painful death. Are you sure you still want me to go through with this?" 

And I said yes. Then over the next few months a slow and equally mysterious recovery did occur, my tests started improving and no one has any idea why, but since there doesn't seem to be any problems now we've left it alone. Beyond that no, I can't remember anything else that absolutely needed medical treatment to prevent death, though there were certainly things I could've gone to a doctor for to maybe alleviate some symptoms.
"The cure for bad information is more information."
(2020-11-03, 11:10 PM)Mediochre Wrote: Not for this round, things have recovered more than enough. And in the past I was too concerned about things happening to other people and refused, sine I wasn't sure how I'd explain it. And since none of the effects persisted in a serious form for too long I never really felt it was a good idea.

Though a heart condition did occur at one point that had a seeming connection to this and did show up in an MRI scan which surprised the doctor, since it showed that I had a nerve with degenerative function in my spine which was connected to my heart  but there was no slipped disc or normal thing that would explain it, and I was a very healthy athletic person in their late 20's who didn't smoke or drink or anything which made it very concerning. This condition got bad to the point where I couldn't walk more than 10 feet before becoming out of breath.

This one isn't really tied directly to the Krueger Effect though, it was a failsafe I'd put in myself before incarnating to prevent me from living past age 30 which I'd then wanted removed so I could continue trying to achieve my goal of developing magic under what are probably the harshest conditions I've ever. Especially since I'd made amazing progress and really only had the final integration to do, and it would be a shame to die before that. Though now that things have dragged on because of all my emotional stuff that I wasn't working through I sometimes regret that. But I thought it was funny how Yellow (psuedonym), the person who removed the failsafe for me put it when she was asking me if I really wanted to go through with it.

She went "Okay, now one of two things is going to happen here. Either A: your body will slowly recover and everything will be fine. Or B: Your body will slowly start to recover... but at some point it will take a sudden turn for the worst because the rune has been in there so long it doesn't know how to adapt with it gone and you'll die a slow, horrible painful death. Are you sure you still want me to go through with this?" 

And I said yes. Then over the next few months a slow and equally mysterious recovery did occur, my tests started improving and no one has any idea why, but since there doesn't seem to be any problems now we've left it alone. Beyond that no, I can't remember anything else that absolutely needed medical treatment to prevent death, though there were certainly things I could've gone to a doctor for to maybe alleviate some symptoms.


There was one time, after someone violently shoved me back in my body after a spontaneous OBE that I got a spontaneous insane nosebleed where I easily lost a good 500mL of blood in a few minutes and was trying to calculate in my head how long it would take an ambulance to get there if I called one, which I was afraid to do because of what just happened and I started getting the early signs of blood loss like dimming vision, cotton mouth nnausea and the rest and just forced as much energy into my sinuses as I could to see if I could stop it or at least slow it down. Which worked very fast, but if it hadn't I had the phone in my hand and I would've just bullshitted some reason for it. That's the only other time I can think of off hand.

In hindsight I actually probably still should have gone to a doctor for that one. And naturally, I've never had a nosebleed remotely that severe before or since that event.
"The cure for bad information is more information."
I was listening to a podcast recently where people were talking about their experiences being incredibly poor and it was hard not to feel bad about not attaining magic yet. One guy in particular stated that the reason he's so cynical in life is because he pushed himself super hard, working 60-70 hours a week during university, in a cycle where it was do a 12 hour shift, sleep 4 hours, go to school, sleep 2 hours, repeat. then right after he gets out the great recession happens. and things have in a sense gotten worse from there. and so what he learned from that is, basically, hard work doesn't matter. It also left him with a great appreciation for others suffering and he's a very nice and decent person and honestly I could relate to a lot of his reasoning and where they came from, even though the path to those things for me was long in the past and often involved violent oppression of one form or another as well as environmental pressures on top of poverty. It's people and stories like that which were always my motivation for magic and my reason for hating reality.

It also highlights that the drive for power exists pretty much entirely as a means of avoiding or preventing pain. Which is the biggest reason that I have so much trouble integrating any idea that says power doesn't matter. that sounds great until you or someone you care about is in extreme poverty and/or being subjected to violence. At that point power becomes very obviously the only thing that could possibly matter, its the only thing that could possibly get you out of that situation, and it's the only reason you're in it in the first place.

Which is the extra insult on top of the rest of it. People didn't choose to exist, and then their existence is in an arbitrarily limited state where they must live tor the sake of something else, and if they disagree, don't do a good enough job, or have trouble keeping up, they are tortured into compliance until they succeed or die. "They" are nothing but batteries or slaves to some external thing they have no say in.

Reality is the enemy of the self.

These days I really understand why Gold saw magic as the means of becoming yourself, taking that tiny insignificant , powerless spark which is the only thing that is "you", unable to control anything else, not your body, feelings or even thoughts, and expand it out until you mould the environment rather than it moulding you.

It just makes it really hard to figure out how I'm supposed to detach from all this when all the math keeps adding back up to the same things. It also doesn't help that I recognize that the only reason I'm trying to detach is so that I can finally get my magic to work, which is counter intuitive. And not only that but the worst thing that I can imagine right now is for me to somehow get to that detachment, and yet magic doesn't follow. so what was even the point? I would've just committed true suicide and nothing more. I would've reduced myself to just another drone and lost everything that allowed me to do what I used to do. What would be worse than that is if that were to happen, and then what followed it was more oppression that I'd be powerless against. Thus further justifying the principles I'd just given up.

Despite all of this I do know that somehow there's a path, specifically because it is logically true that there's technically no difference between me now and me at my best and therefore I shouldn't worry about it. I just don't know where that path might be and its really annoying.
"The cure for bad information is more information."

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