Elysium Unveiled: A Visual Odyssey of Life Eternal by Jurgen Ziewe

If there's any commonality or conclusion to come to from all the data, reliable or otherwise, its that death is better than life.

Why do you think Jurgen's experiences are not lucid dreams? How can you tell what he is experiencing? Is the fact that you don't think he is an idiot the only reason? If not, can you say why someone should believe his experiences are not lucid dreams?

I explain my views about Jurgen in my other post in this thread. 


Thanks

Obviously, I can't be 100% sure about other people's experiences, but I can say based on my own experiences that lucid dreams and OBEs/astral travel are definitely different things. Even after the most realistic lucid dreams in which I have, for example, held a can of energy drink in my hands and felt the cold aluminium on my fingertips or studied other "physical" objects that have been indistinguishable from their counterparts in waking reality, I have always known during the experience and after waking that it was a dream. Whereas in my OBE I knew it wasn't a dream and after the experience I knew it was definitely real. I had a full waking consciousness during the whole experience and everything I saw was 100% accurate.

Ziewe's experiences are also similar to other OBErs/astral travelers' (William Buhlman, Cyrus Kirkpatrick, Bob Peterson etc.) experiences, and they are in accordance with the evidence from psychical research and NDE accounts. He also says that we retain our individuality, and for me this is important, since I consider everybody who claims otherwise a liar. Like for example that evil fake medium Sylvia Browne.

If there's any commonality or conclusion to come to from all the data, reliable or otherwise, its that death is better than life.

I'm not sure, there seem to be a variety of possible destinations and some seem pretty awful.

Obviously, I can't be 100% sure about other people's experiences, but I can say based on my own experiences that lucid dreams and OBEs/astral travel are definitely different things. Even after the most realistic lucid dreams in which I have, for example, held a can of energy drink in my hands and felt the cold aluminium on my fingertips or studied other "physical" objects that have been indistinguishable from their counterparts in waking reality, I have always known during the experience and after waking that it was a dream. Whereas in my OBE I knew it wasn't a dream and after the experience I knew it was definitely real. I had a full waking consciousness during the whole experience and everything I saw was 100% accurate.

Ziewe's experiences are also similar to other OBErs/astral travelers' (William Buhlman, Cyrus Kirkpatrick, Bob Peterson etc.) experiences, and they are in accordance with the evidence from psychical research and NDE accounts. He also says that we retain our individuality, and for me this is important, since I consider everybody who claims otherwise a liar. Like for example that evil fake medium Sylvia Browne.

I would agree with your conclusions here, except for your disparaging comment about Sylvia Browne. I think that if everything she produced was fakery it probably was unconsciously generated, not deliberate for profit and fame. She apparently honestly thought she was "channeling" dead composers. Now, I have listened to some of her recordings, and did conclude that despite some apparent resemblances to the composers claimed, the quality of the music was rather wanting and it was hard to really believe it was really Liszt coming through for instance. She apparently was aware of this and claimed that the problem was transmission distortion arising from the communication process and to her own basic limitations. I think that this is sort of convenient, but still plausible. And some musically qualified people have had a different opinion of the quality of these "communications". And there is the question of how a musically unschooled person could compose a massive number of such technically competent if usually mediocre compositions. 

I would be interested in why you have such a negative opinion of her.

I think the following article has a good and even-handed examination, looking at both sides of the question:   https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-10-31/m.../104536974 .

I would be interested in why you have such a negative opinion of her.

I remember reading her NDE account, and in it she claimed that we will meet a council of elders and then we will give up our individuality. Her account contained some other preposterous claims as well.

And then there are all these things Michael Prescott mentioned in this blog post:

https://michaelprescott.typepad.com/mich...able_.html

[Laird]

@nbtruthman, I think you're confusing Rosemary Brown and Sylvia Browne. @Raimo was referring to the latter.

@nbtruthman, I think you're confusing Rosemary Brown and Sylvia Browne. @Raimo was referring to the latter.

My bad. Got careless. What I said was concerning Rosemary Brown, not Sylvia Browne. I agree with the disparaging comment about Sylvia Browne, in  fact I once had a reading from her, and was very unimpressed and thought it was mainly cold reading.

I remember reading her NDE account, and in it she claimed that we will meet a council of elders and then we will give up our individuality. Her account contained some other preposterous claims as well.

And then there are all these things Michael Prescott mentioned in this blog post:

https://michaelprescott.typepad.com/mich...able_.html

See my reply to Laird above.

Yeah, I mean his conclusions. As to how, well as one example, he's claimed on multiple occassions to have met people at various parts of these astral levels. In such a vivid state it should be trivial to ask them for specific identifiable information and then go investigate back here to verify that he is indeed talking to real dead people.

I'd expect him to attempt to falsify all of his conclusions, I mean, I did. I ran experiments with shared dreams and whatnot with my former relationship and a few other people and learned a good deal about stuff. Disproved some ideas in the process. There's really no excuse these days for people not to be doing this with this stuff.

One of the things I learned via my experiments with projection, shared dreams, poltergeisting, and the intersection thereof, is that you can indeed just straight up walk up to someone, talk to them, get specific information that you can then verify outside of the projection. And though there are some caveats and whatnot, it wasn't 100% accurate all the time, there were more nuances to it that I learned needed to be refined. it's te type of thing I'd be expecting him to at least try rather than just believing his expiences.

But whenever I've heard Jurgen talk about his conclusions, he does so as if they're facts without anything to back it up. That makes me not see much value in anything he says.

Mediochre,

Do you have a blog or anything describing some of your explorations?

David

If there's any commonality or conclusion to come to from all the data, reliable or otherwise, its that death is better than life.

I would definitely question that considering that most experiences are life affirming rather than otherwise. Death might be nicer, but life is far more important.