Dualism or idealist monism as the best model for survival after death data

If you are around long enough for the revelation, you will be surprised and shocked, although the technology does not use microwaves but UHF radio waves.

I don't really know anything about the scientific literature on this?

The best I've heard is being able to scan a brain and read certain thoughts though even then only with high probability than certainty. Also I think this was contextual and limited?

I don't think much of Persinger's high geomagnetic activity and high electromagnetic field interference theories. And the notion that Fatima was generated by an entity could be extended indefinitely to Animistically explain a multitude of paranormal manifestation cases. In the absence of any verified information, there could be hordes of mischievous spirits enabling and also constantly interfering in our world. Like with super-psi and world-is-a-simulation theories, that which explains everything actually explains nothing, especially because of being unfalsifiable. Why should just Catholic beliefs, and animistic beliefs of aboriginal tribes, so uniquely empower preexisting entities? It seems much more likely to me that these phenomena are collective psychic manifestations of the unconscious minds of many faithful true believers, and that for the most part in our world just Catholicism and certain aboriginal communities have possessed enough communal psychic energy to generate these paranormal phenomena. All this mechanism would require is communities of faithful deep believers in cults or religions where the existence of powerful spirit entities is a core feature of the belief systems. 

That's not to claim there are no spirit entity manifestations. It's just that these cases would likely be in the great minority. One further possibility is a combination of these two models - where sometimes, collective human spiritual psychic energy manifests the paranormal phenomena by actually creating spirit entities that do the work. A famous documented example was "Philip", created by the prolonged efforts of an expert mediumship circle.

I don't believe Fatima was generated by an entity, I think what happened is some kind of entity appeared but was interpreted as Mary. The initial reports are something about a young girl with a knee high skirt w/odd features if I recall.

As to the cases being just Catholicism and Animism there are a variety of cases of these kinds of entities across the world, though I'll have to go back and dig into cases. I think Vallee's work in Passport to Magonia does a good job of tracking the European cases at least.

I actually think Phillip, like cases of medium Controls in general, are just spirits. I think spirits just come and take part in ritual practices like the kind that "created" Phillip. With regard to Controls in mediumship, I think this helps makes sense of their mix of ignorance and knowledge along with their mischievous bent.

Even if we accept subpersonalities, the research by the Wicklands shows that even in those cases you [could] have spirit possession. Admittedly AFAIK the Wicklands felt these cases always involved the dead and not elemental spirits of the Animist kind.

Really I am just quite wary of any claim that human psychic powers can create entities via some kind of subconscious planning. It just seems hard to explain why these things only happen in isolated contexts and don't give us manifestations more generally. James Carpenter's First Sight Theory, which claims we use Psi all the time, doesn't seem to include creating entities out of belief.

This isn't to say every case of "macro-Psi" in the wild is due to a spirit. I can accept that Joseph of Cupertino levitated due to his personal faith leading to Psi manifestation, since AFAIK this never involves a subconscious personality. Same with the "PK Man" who, AFAIK, never talked about subpersonalities. 

But even in the Mesmerism cases it seems there is a personality switch, where the one who has the powers is of a different personality than the usual person. Metaphysically it isn't clear to me what a different personality is if not a different conscious Self...and if this Self is immortal too then seeing it as a separate spirit makes sense to me...

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I actually think Phillip, like cases of medium Controls in general, are just spirits. I think spirits just come and take part in ritual practices like the kind that "created" Phillip. With regard to Controls in mediumship, I think this helps makes sense of their mix of ignorance and knowledge along with their mischievous bent.

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There doesn't seem to be much evidence Philip was a mischievous preexisting spirit entity that barged into the group's lengthy process in the desire to fake the results of their imagination. To what end this expenditure of so much time and energy on the part of the discarnate entity? The details of the records of the group's process mostly indicate that Philip was actually created by the group.

From the Psi Encyclopedia entry (https://psi-encyclopedia.spr.ac.uk/artic...eplication):

"Each member of the group memorized the story (that they had concocted from pure imagination) and tried to visualize Philip, making him as real as they could in their minds. They agreed on all aspects of his appearance, personality and preferences, and Andy produced a drawing of him.  The group decided to attempt to cause him to manifest in visible form; only then, they hypothesized, could he be summoned.

The group members made a commitment to meet weekly for sessions for a year. They sat in a circle around a table with the drawing of Philip in its center, or a piece of aluminized cardboard on the floor instead of the table, in the hope of causing Philip to materialize on it. The sittings were never in darkness but rather colored lights or candlelight.

After a period of quiet meditation, they would share what they had felt or experienced during meditation, then meditate again. The length of the meditation increased as group members became used to it. In discussions they continued to develop Philip as a character, solidifying their collective notion of his personality. In time they found themselves becoming convinced he had really lived.  But a year passed without significant results."

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After changing meditation practices, results finally started coming:
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"Using one rap for yes and two for no, the group had him tell his story, to see if this would match their creative conception, and this proved generally to be the case. Any new material could usually be traced to an earlier comment by a group member, as was also the case when ‘Philip’ gave historically inaccurate answers, which could almost always be traced to incorrect knowledge on the part of the group.

The group remained aware that they had created Philip, but came to treat him as a group member.

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...when members were sick, the phenomena would manifest more weakly.
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...there was no question in the minds of the group members that Philip’s personality was a composite of their own, since he was their creation."

There doesn't seem to be much evidence Philip was a mischievous preexisting spirit entity that barged into the group's lengthy process in the desire to fake the results of their imagination. To what end this expenditure of so much time and energy on the part of the discarnate entity? The details of the records of the group's process mostly indicate that Philip was actually created by the group.

From the Psi Encyclopedia entry (https://psi-encyclopedia.spr.ac.uk/artic...eplication):

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After changing meditation practices, results finally started coming:
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Yeah I'm familiar with the case but it just doesn't add up IMO. Why this ritualized practice, and not another? Why haven't we seen manifestations of Harry Potter's world (or Tolkien's Middle Earth, etc)?

Just compare Phillip to other mediumship controls, and the parallels seem quite important.

To me it seems less extravagant to assume there was a spirit who decided to play along than the idea that humans can create a conscious being out of whole cloth.

As to why a spirit would do this, just look at all the bizarre things people get up to either anonymously or in fully public exposure on the internet...

Yeah I'm familiar with the case but it just doesn't add up IMO. Why this ritualized practice, and not another? Why haven't we seen manifestations of Harry Potter's world (or Tolkien's Middle Earth, etc)?

Just compare Phillip to other mediumship controls, and the parallels seem quite important.

To me it seems less extravagant to assume there was a spirit who decided to play along than the idea that humans can create a conscious being out of whole cloth.

As to why a spirit would do this, just look at all the bizarre things people get up to either anonymously or in fully public exposure on the internet...

It seems reasonable that much concentrated practice would be needed to entrain the subconscious minds of the circle to create a collective artificial personality. Harry Potter or Tolkien's Middle Earth sagas would not engender such powerful mental energies, would not entail such mental forcing for long periods.

I know it's an argument from authority, but the conclusions of some renowned experts in this area should at least be considered. Early on, William James suspected that Leonora Piper's controls were creations of her subconscious, he thought a fascinating mental process that seemed to serve to buffer her from the strangeness of trance life. Stephen Braude studied mediumship for many years, and concluded in Immortal Remains that most controls are flagrantly artificial personalities. He said that given their obvious artificiality, there can be little doubt that the medium constructed them subconsciously. This of course doesn't prove that the uncannily realistic to sitters deceased personalities coming through in successful readings are also subconsciously manufactured by the medium. It seems obvious that prodigious mediums like Piper produced both subconsciously generated control "spirits" and genuine discarnate communications.

It seems reasonable that much concentrated practice would be needed to entrain the subconscious minds of the circle to create a collective artificial personality. Harry Potter or Tolkien's Middle Earth sagas would not engender such powerful mental energies, would not entail such mental forcing for long periods.

I know it's an argument from authority, but the conclusions of some renowned experts in this area should at least be considered. Early on, William James suspected that Leonora Piper's controls were creations of her subconscious, he thought a fascinating mental process that seemed to serve to buffer her from the strangeness of trance life. Stephen Braude studied mediumship for many years, and concluded in Immortal Remains that most controls are flagrantly artificial personalities. He said that given their obvious artificiality, there can be little doubt that the medium constructed them subconsciously. This of course doesn't prove that the uncannily realistic to sitters deceased personalities coming through in successful readings are also subconsciously manufactured by the medium. It seems obvious that prodigious mediums like Piper produced both subconsciously generated control "spirits" and genuine discarnate communications.

Braude is the main Super-Psi guy though. What do you think is the difference then between "Phillip" and what you would consider genuine cases of mediumship?

It just seems to me that if controls are born from a subconscious personality AND living humans can even create a psychic entity like Phillip then a lot of Survival evidence can be dismissed. Maybe not all of it but a fair number of cases I'd think could be then said to fall under psychic sub-personalities or psychic creations.

Though even if [one] grants these Super Psi powers to living humans...it still seems we should have many more cases of human willing + wishing creating new psychic entities. Admittedly some claim [this] is what Tulpas are, and I too believed this for some time, but the question that nagged at me was why human belief had creative potential [to the point of manifesting entities] but only in isolated contexts. [IMO it seems more plausible that there are just spirits, likely including the dead who have not traveled beyond this world, who enjoy playing these games with humans.]

edit: You can buy Ouija Boards at your local department store in the game section, but the number of people who experience paranormal phenomena by using them seems lower?

Braude is the main Super-Psi guy though. What do you think is the difference then between "Phillip" and what you would consider genuine cases of mediumship?

It just seems to me that if controls are born from a subconscious personality AND living humans can even create a psychic entity like Phillip then a lot of Survival evidence can be dismissed. Maybe not all of it but a fair number of cases I'd think could be then said to fall under psychic sub-personalities or psychic creations.

Though even if [one] grants these Super Psi powers to living humans...it still seems we should have many more cases of human willing + wishing creating new psychic entities. Admittedly some claim [this] is what Tulpas are, and I too believed this for some time, but the question that nagged at me was why human belief had creative potential [to the point of manifesting entities] but only in isolated contexts. [IMO it seems more plausible that there are just spirits, likely including the dead who have not traveled beyond this world, who enjoy playing these games with humans.]

edit: You can buy Ouija Boards at your local department store in the game section, but the number of people who experience paranormal phenomena by using them seems lower?

Mediumistic communications from apparent deceased personalities that are uncannily authentic-seeming can't reasonably be blanket dismissed as being generated by the medium's subconscious mind combined with psychically gathered information. This is because just that the medium probably subconsciously artificially created an interfacing "control" spirit doesn't automatically logically prove that another and different paranormal phenomenon, apparent mediumistic communications received from discarnate personalities, was also generated by the subconscious of the medium. The prior probability of survival is good based on other sources of data, since there are several other very probative evidences for survival and an afterlife, especially well-verified CORT reincarnation phenomena and veridical NDEs.

Probably the reason for the relative unpopularity of Ouija boards and their probable general ineffectiveness in revealing paranormal phenomena, is simply due to the changes in lifestyle in the current world. People today have so many technologically-generated distractions and pursuits (like smartphones, TV and the Internet), that it is very unusual for people to devote the weeks or months of focused effort usually required to obtain apparent paranormal communications through the Ouija board. And it has generally become known that there is danger in the practice.

Mediumistic communications from apparent deceased personalities that are uncannily authentic-seeming can't reasonably be blanket dismissed as being generated by the medium's subconscious mind combined with psychically gathered information. This is because just that the medium probably subconsciously artificially created an interfacing "control" spirit doesn't automatically logically prove that another and different paranormal phenomenon, apparent mediumistic communications received from discarnate personalities, was also generated by the subconscious of the medium. The prior probability of survival is good based on other sources of data, since there are several other very probative evidences for survival and an afterlife, especially well-verified CORT reincarnation phenomena and veridical NDEs.

Probably the reason for the relative unpopularity of Ouija boards and their probable general ineffectiveness in revealing paranormal phenomena, is simply due to the changes in lifestyle in the current world. People today have so many technologically-generated distractions and pursuits (like smartphones, TV and the Internet), that it is very unusual for people to devote the weeks or months of focused effort usually required to obtain apparent paranormal communications through the Ouija board. And it has generally become known that there is danger in the practice.

I think the issue with CORTs and NDEs is if you allow Super Psi to explain spirits by subconscious Psi powers, willfully created psychic entities born of human creativity, or a combination of both...it is quite hard to see why those types of Survival evidence aren't also under the purview of Super Psi?

As for the danger of Ouija boards, it seems to me their danger is contacting some spirit entity. However their continued sales suggests to me most people's experiences are merely that of a fun party game rather than any real contact. So it doesn't seem like human wishing actually accomplishes much here.

Beyond that if we look at ritualized healing we have to ask how intricate rituals even came about. Why does Rolling Thunder put the sickness into a pair of steaks? It seems to me the ritual practice is either born of revelation from some spirit entity or through some trial and error to satisfy the spirits involved. On the other hand, looking at direct psychic healing we find Bengson mentioning spirit entities - Seven Fellows is their name IIRC - that actually aided in his healing work. (Admittedly I am skeptical of Bengson's claims, at least to some degree.)

Compare these paranormal healing phenomena with what I would guess are the vast amount of prayers and even failed ritual practices. The variability of success suggests human willing & wishing alone isn't sufficient, nor has Nature selected for such powers which is what might expect under a Super Psi explanation for spirits.
 
However if there are spirits that have a means of existing without physical bodies it bolsters Survival as a position, and on the flip if Survival is true it seems that at least the dead are capable of existing as apparitions in this world...but this also means there is a way spirits could exist in this world as well.

Meanwhile trying to explain away spirits but keep Survival just seems to lead to a mess of metaphysics, leaving more questions than answers.

I think the issue with CORTs and NDEs is if you allow Super Psi to explain spirits by subconscious Psi powers, willfully created psychic entities born of human creativity, or a combination of both...it is quite hard to see why those types of Survival evidence aren't also under the purview of Super Psi?

As for the danger of Ouija boards, it seems to me their danger is contacting some spirit entity. However their continued sales suggests to me most people's experiences are merely that of a fun party game rather than any real contact. So it doesn't seem like human wishing actually accomplishes much here.

Beyond that if we look at ritualized healing we have to ask how intricate rituals even came about. Why does Rolling Thunder put the sickness into a pair of steaks? It seems to me the ritual practice is either born of revelation from some spirit entity or through some trial and error to satisfy the spirits involved. On the other hand, looking at direct psychic healing we find Bengson mentioning spirit entities - Seven Fellows is their name IIRC - that actually aided in his healing work. (Admittedly I am skeptical of Bengson's claims, at least to some degree.)

Compare these paranormal healing phenomena with what I would guess are the vast amount of prayers and even failed ritual practices. The variability of success suggests human willing & wishing alone isn't sufficient, nor has Nature selected for such powers which is what might expect under a Super Psi explanation for spirits.
 
However if there are spirits that have a means of existing without physical bodies it bolsters Survival as a position, and on the flip if Survival is true it seems that at least the dead are capable of existing as apparitions in this world...but this also means there is a way spirits could exist in this world as well.

Meanwhile trying to explain away spirits but keep Survival just seems to lead to a mess of metaphysics, leaving more questions than answers.

The problem with this idea is that Super-Psi or Living Agent Psi seems only to have some abilities to create objectively real external paranormal phenomena such as apparitions, and apparent entities manifesting through an Ouija board or mediumistic circle. But it's not able to bridge the objective/subjective gap and create vivid inner paranormal experiences indicative of survival like NDEs and CORTs, where it is an experience inside the Self, not being manifested and being observed external to it.

The problem with this idea is that Super-Psi or Living Agent Psi seems only to have some abilities to create objectively real external paranormal phenomena such as apparitions, and apparent entities manifesting through an Ouija board or mediumistic circle. But it's not able to bridge the objective/subjective gap and create vivid inner paranormal experiences indicative of survival like NDEs and CORTs, where it is an experience inside the Self, not being manifested and being observed external to it.

But there are inner experiences involving spirits as well? Certain shamanic visionary journeys involve dreaming experiences with spirit entities. For example a women with a history of being abused said she found great healing via Strassman's DMT experiments due to interaction with odd Harlequin entities.

On top of that if this idea of spirits being Super-Psi creations is meant to fit in some kind of Designed Dualism, the rules for when these Psi powers manifest in the fictional-but-seemingly-real creation of spirits seems like it would rather messy.
 
I think it makes more sense to have a unified explanation for Survival and spirits, with ourselves as a kind of spirit that has chosen to incarnate into a biological body.

Of course if Super Psi was a good theory I could accept it, but the selective aspect of its manifestation and the odd role of subconscious personalities are two big hurdles for it being a workable explanation IMO.