Dr Eben Alexander's new book

That's a fact really. If a person has lied, been discovered or admitted it and then been disciplined for it they are not of good character (lot's of things can make a person not of good character - for example in english law any criminal conviction makes a person 'not of good character', however trivial it is - I actually view what he did as serious tbh - but not even slightly relevant to his NDE). What that means in practice depends on who it was and under what circumstances. This happened 8 years ago if I calculate it correctly, I am sure he learned from the experience and isn't the same person he was then - I hope I'm not either. 

As far as the NDE is concerned I am with you. He'd have to be insane to publicise something like this given his position if he'd made it up. I don't think he made it up. Did he gild it? - Who knows? It was a personal subjective experience and I don't know him. You'd have to ask people who know him well. The difficulty with speaking to his friends is of course a) they're his friends and are unlikely to share a negative opinion with a stranger and b) who are his friends that we can trust their judgement? (I am not really suggesting his friends are telling the truth, I just don't know).

If given he is being truthful about the experience, he could still be wrong couldn't he? There isn't much corroboration other than the sister - which i didn't find particularly moving - but that's just me.

Obiwan, I don't want to fall out with you about this but you've basically contradicted yourself again. So, you are saying it's a fact that he is not of good character. It's not a statement I can accept personally and I don't think it's justified.

But there is documentation on Mr. Alexander's dishonesty and cover up in the medical field. That's more than innuendo.

Aha! I was right

@tim I have to say tim I really admire your tenacity with this subject in general.

Okay, thanks Obiwan.

But there is documentation on Mr. Alexander's dishonesty and cover up in the medical field. That's more than innuendo.

There are other doctors who've been convinced by studying NDEs, there are NDErs who've had amazing experiences that include veridical components and there are people who post NDE had miraculous recoveries.

I think it's bad strategy from a marketing standpoint for anyone to make too much of Mr. Alexander, both for the lack of interesting veridicial components in his NDE and his past documented dishonesty. Some people - not necessarily those on Psience Quest - seem to want to appeal to his medical expertise while simultaneously avoiding the criticisms he received in that field.

I'm happy that he has made more people aware of NDEs, the work in Irreducible Mind, and the Hard Problem of Consciousness but if he genuinely cares about the movement and not just making a buck he should do more to push the luminaries in the NDE movement who don't have the questionable reputation he does.

I don't believe anything I'm saying is beyond what you'd hear discussed in a marketing team looking for a spokesperson. Similarly Brian Dunning going to prison for scamming people should make the skeptic movement wary of promoting him as well.

If the target market is the general public, I'd say he's a great spokesperson. If my target audience were doctors or anyone in mainstream academia, I probably wouldn't start with the subject of NDE's... the anecdotal emotional power might be great, but the evidence will not be of the same statistically robust nature as other areas of parapsychology.

If the target market is the general public, I'd say he's a great spokesperson. If my target audience were doctors or anyone in mainstream academia, I probably wouldn't start with the subject of NDE's... the anecdotal emotional power might be great, but the evidence will not be of the same statistically robust nature as other areas of parapsychology.

Fair enough, I think I may have to just agree to disagree as beyond what I've already written not sure what more I could say.

Hopefully his prominent place in the NDE awareness movement works out.

Obiwan, I don't want to fall out with you about this but you've basically contradicted yourself again. So, you are saying it's a fact that he is not of good character. It's not a statement I can accept personally and I don't think it's justified.

I don't see any contradiction - we won't fall out if you point out what the contradiction is

Fact: he 'alter(ed) the original operative report to obscure the fact of the wrong site surgery.' according to the medical board.
(my note: note it says 'to' obscure it. In other words that was the intention).
It seems to me that's a dishonest act.
It wasn't a simple error if the description is a fair summary of the board's finding.
He has been found guilty of it by his regulator.
He has been punished. 
From a professional perspective his reputation is tarnished (but not ruined). 
Thats it. 

That would mean if he appeared again he would not be of 'good character' from their perspective, i.e. he has a previous matter on record. 

That isn't the same as saying he can't be believed about anything every again.

Anyway, we've probably done this to death now. As Sci has joined the fray I will leave further comment on Eben Alexander and Life and Times to Sci.

I don't see any contradiction - we won't fall out if you point out what the contradiction is

Fact: he 'alter(ed) the original operative report to obscure the fact of the wrong site surgery.' according to the medical board.
(my note: note it says 'to' obscure it. In other words that was the intention).
It seems to me that's a dishonest act.
It wasn't a simple error if the description is a fair summary of the board's finding.
He has been found guilty of it by his regulator.
He has been punished. 
From a professional perspective his reputation is tarnished (but not ruined). 
Thats it. 

That would mean if he appeared again he would not be of 'good character' from their perspective, i.e. he has a previous matter on record. 

That isn't the same as saying he can't be believed about anything every again.

Anyway, we've probably done this to death now. As Sci has joined the fray I will leave further comment on Eben Alexander and Life and Times to Sci.

The contradiction :

Post 44

My view is that he is not a person of good character,

Post 53

I am not making a judgement of the man himself

I didn't think the example I gave was fraudulent. Sorry I thought you were asking how it could be that a medium might seem to cheat and yet not be cheating. If I need to add to it let me know. 

On your experience:

I think it depends on where one's degree of acceptance lies. That said, I have never read of any materialisation medium manipulating ectoplasm themselves. The observers usually describe the medium as inert and playing no part in it as far as I recall.

There do seem to be reports of mediums being freed from bonds and then re-secured (sometimes, clothing removed and returned back to front and suchlike). Is it possible? I think that's down to your judgement if you don't have definitive proof. How confident can you be that the restraints could not be escaped by normal means? 

If I read you correctly you believe the medium's hands were free - I can't imagine why that would be necessary. What did you mean by manipulating it?

There have been some very elaborate restraints applied to mediums in the past, whole body bound by sitters not known to the medium including threads which would snap if there was interference.

What I mean is: in the low light created by a partially glowing 6x8 chalk board the medium leaned forward and held the mass of ectoplasm in his hands. It was about a cubic foot of material and he stretched it to show is the consistency of it. I wouldn't call it "necessary",, it was more about showing us what ectoplasm was. And it wasn't the medium talking us through it but an entity. Unfortunately I couldn't see medium's mouth so can't really saw what the source of the voice was.

I know these are standard heavy duty zip ties. The ones that are about 1/2 wide straps. I personally checked them after they were installed and looked real and they were tight. And I inspected a cut tie after the demonstration and it looked normal. I suppose there might be some hard to see modification to the tie to release it but a normal person could never get out of these ties. It would take someone with some real "magic" skills to do this. I have seem MUCH more impressive feats done by professional magicians, so I have no doubt the trick is doable. But a "normal" person couldn't do it.

There are other doctors who've been convinced by studying NDEs, there are NDErs who've had amazing experiences that include veridical components and there are people who post NDE had miraculous recoveries.

I understand what you are saying.

But to your point above- what are the chances that one of THOSE doctors have something in their past that makes THEM look bad? I'd say pretty good. Doesn't address your concern, but only goes to the problem of person veracity with stuff like this.