Do Physical Laws Make Things Happen?
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(2017-09-04, 01:19 AM)Laird Wrote: "The ground of being"? Yeah it seems the Prime Mover explanation works well though I have trouble really understanding Pure Actuality as anything more than a metaphysical linchpin. I'm flipping through Feser's new book, Five Proofs of the Existence of God, will probably make a thread or more about some of these proofs.
'Historically, we may regard materialism as a system of dogma set up to combat orthodox dogma...Accordingly we find that, as ancient orthodoxies disintegrate, materialism more and more gives way to scepticism.'
- Bertrand Russell
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(2017-09-02, 03:27 PM)Sciborg_S_Patel Wrote: I don't think magic is involved (depending on how magic is defined), but it does leave us with at least two conclusions: Well, of course For starters our knowledge of the "laws" is very limited, so our reasonings on them will also be pretty inadequate. We can make models and try to our best shot at a "theory of everything", but the premise is that we're trying to figure the solution to a puzzle that's missing a Googolplex of pieces. Every time we make a major new discovery (QM, DNA, cosmology) the level of complexity increases exponentially and I suspect our mind is likely unfit to unravel the whole mystery. Not that we should give up, naturally. Any tentative understanding is better than nothing, but I feel we should be less attached to our models. I am talking to you scientism! That's why I sympathize with mysterianists.
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(2017-09-03, 10:23 PM)Pssst Wrote: Try this on. I don't know. Seems like everything comes down to "frequencies" for some belief systems. Seems like "frequencies" has become the new QM: basically something that is so undefined, mysterious, so lacking of deep understanding, it can be anything you want it to be: like some magic pixie dust. Look at the ancient Greeks and their gods. Got a conundrum, create a God and a myth. Bang. Problem solved. I'm not buying into that. Not because it can't be, or because I have a better idea, just because it is too arbitrary for me with my level of knowledge/understanding. This may change as I discover some pieces that fit with it. OTOH: perhaps I come across an explanation that doesn't feel arbitrary. Personally, I progressed to the point where I'm convinced that there is a whole non-physical basis to our existence. And I didn't move from a conventional engineer and the world-understanding that this usually entails, to the point I'm at now, by accepting any idea came over the wall. I got here by looking closely at evidence and seeing whether and how it fit with the other evidence I've validated. I don't see where this fits with everything else I've learned. So personally, I'm leaving this with the pile of other possibilities until I discover more that points in this direction. I'm in no rush. (2017-09-04, 09:15 AM)Brian Wrote: So "laws" are the creation of our brains from observed patterns and anomalies are therefore theoretically possible? If you mean the word "law" is a creation that's true. If you mean the we create the laws which dictates how the universe runs that's a misunderstanding. I don't know what you have in mind. Laws are just descriptions based upon experimentation and observation.
I've tried to re-read the OP for the third time but I am not sure I can fully decode the it. It feels a bit convoluted for my simple, not too philosphically-oriented mind
Quote:All this gives you some indication why so many scientists, when stepping back from the rather messy reality of their daily work and considering the character of their science, show such great reluctance to reckon with the substance of the observable world. They much prefer to conceive the explanatory value of science in terms of abstract laws — equations, rules, algorithms — which naturally remain gratifyingly lawful in an uncomplicated way. The world disappears into a vague notion of "whatever gives material reality to the laws". I think I am even more confused than the first time I read it. If anybody had the patience to break it down for me into a comprehensible form I'd be grateful Sometimes it seems philosopher take pleasure in employing obscure language for the sake of it, to make their message less accessible. That's why I prefer the likes of Bernardo, Chalmers, Braude, Nagel... cheers
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