Thread about another classic UFO, the 1968 Minot ND B52 UFO air and ground case:
(This post was last modified: 2024-06-16, 11:22 PM by nbtruthman. Edited 1 time in total.)
https://psiencequest.net/forums/thread-t...a#pid57159 
(2024-06-16, 08:50 PM)David001 Wrote: Those examples don't use any very advanced physics. That is part of the problem. Developments in physics used to generate new devices. I think physics that produces new 'stuff' is far more likely to be reliable than physics that just produces new papers. That is obviously nobody's fault, but it is a modern problem I would argue those applications require very advanced physics, but maybe your mileage may differ  Modern Electronics Quantum Mechanics: Understanding the behavior of electrons in semiconductors. Solid State Physics: The study of how electrons and other particles are arranged in solids. Electromagnetism: Principles governing electric and magnetic fields and their interactions. Statistical Mechanics: Helps in understanding electronic properties and behavior at different temperatures. Satellites for GPS and Communication General Relativity: Essential for correcting the time dilation effects due to gravity on GPS satellites. Electromagnetic Theory: For designing and understanding satellite communication systems. Orbital Mechanics: Principles governing satellite orbits and their dynamics. Signal Processing: Techniques for managing and interpreting the data transmitted and received by satellites. Airplanes Aerodynamics: Study of the behavior of air and how it interacts with solid objects, such as airplane wings. Fluid Dynamics: Understanding the motion of air around the aircraft. Structural Mechanics: Principles of material science to ensure the structural integrity of the airplane. Thermodynamics: Essential for understanding the engines and propulsion systems. Nuclear Power Nuclear Physics: Fundamental principles of nuclear reactions and radioactive decay. Quantum Mechanics: Understanding particle behavior at atomic and subatomic levels. Thermodynamics: Principles governing heat transfer and energy conversion in nuclear reactors. Radiation Physics: Understanding the behavior and effects of ionizing radiation. Material Science: For the development of materials that can withstand high radiation and temperatures. I admit I don’t know of any applications of quarks - I don’t care whether they exists or not, but I'm afraid that until someone invents the perpetual motion machine there's no reason to take the idea of nuts&bolts aliens hidden in the american basement too seriously.
Whatever forms of advanced physics knowledge can be had, they would still have to drive a solid object through space where classical physics rules. Schrödinger's cat cannot be literally both dead and alive even though subatomic particles can be in a superposition.
(2024-06-17, 08:17 AM)sbu Wrote: I would argue those applications require very advanced physics, but maybe your mileage may differ "Advanced" as in complex or "advanced" as in developed in the last decade or so?
'Historically, we may regard materialism as a system of dogma set up to combat orthodox dogma...Accordingly we find that, as ancient orthodoxies disintegrate, materialism more and more gives way to scepticism.'
- Bertrand Russell 
(2024-06-17, 08:17 AM)sbu Wrote: I would argue those applications require very advanced physics, but maybe your mileage may differ Well lets put a specific time limit to determine what counts as modern physics. Shall we say 1950 (or 1960 if you prefer). Solid state electronics began (I suppose) with the invention of the transistor in Bell labs in 1947. QM was well developed by that time as well. Nuclear fission was also discovered by this time. Many of the other concepts were developed even earlier - statistical mechanics, electromagnetism, etc. The issue of GR and GPS is slightly different - although of course GR was invented back in 1925. I remember a discussion about this on Skeptiko, and someone pointed out that the GPS signal is adjusted in an Ad Hoc way - so perhaps it would run without GR corrections being programmed in explicitly. Certainly if you type Ad Hoc adjustments to GPS you get a lot of information that I haven't explored. However, as you clearly acknowledge the concept of quarks, which has been explored using a number of incredibly expensive particle accelerators, culminating in the $9 Billion LHC, has not spun off any practical applications at all. If real quarks could have been generated, I am pretty certain some impressive applications would have ensued because of the intriguing quark charges of +- 1/3 or 2/3 e. After all that effort the smallest charge is e (excluding 0 of course) is e - just as Millikan discovered in the early part of last century. I hope you realise that I am not asking for practical applications of modern physics because I think physics should only be done for practical reasons, but because I think practical applications keep science away from some of the resource-wasting traps that it can fall into. Another beautiful example has been string theory. After about 40 years of so far futile research theorists are starting to abandon that idea. David
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(2024-06-17, 09:07 PM)David001 Wrote: I remember a discussion about this on Skeptiko, and someone pointed out that the GPS signal is adjusted in an Ad Hoc way - so perhaps it would run without GR corrections being programmed in explicitly. Certainly if you type Ad Hoc adjustments to GPS you get a lot of information that I haven't explored. False! All global positioning sattelites systems (not only the american GPS) uses general relativity for clock corrections https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5253894/ https://gssc.esa.int/navipedia/index.php...Correction Without these relativistic clock corrections these systems wouldn’t work at all: Quote:As it is shown, range errors up to 13 meters and vertical errors over 20 meters can be experienced when neglecting this correction. Wasn’t Skeptiko just a sad place in the with all those lies and conspiracy theories being circulated? I wonder if this Einstein hate is anti-semitic motivated? There are even people who thinks Einsteins theory is a liberal conspiracy - (https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/.../time-warp). The world is a sad place. We are definitely not here to learn anything! By the way, I'm not suggesting that you are knowingly participating in such politically motivated discrediting.
(2024-06-18, 08:00 AM)sbu Wrote: False! Well this issue doesn't seem settled: https://www.physicsmyths.org.uk/gps.htm Let's try to resolve this before deciding who if anyone is participating in politically motivated discrediting! David
(2024-06-18, 11:09 AM)David001 Wrote: Well this issue doesn't seem settled: Wonderful, this is exactly the type of misinformation I was alluding to in my previous post. The derivations in the link oversimplify the problem by ignoring the actual relativistic effects and corrections used in GPS technology. The argument incorrectly assumes that the transmitter clocks' relative errors do not accumulate, which is not true in practice. The corrections for relativistic effects are essential for maintaining the synchronization of the satellite clocks with the ground-based reference clocks. Each GPS satellite's clock drift must be calculated in its own reference frame to account for relativistic effects accurately. This is because the relative motion and gravitational potential of each satellite with respect to the Earth’s surface influence the rate at which time passes differently for each satellite. The math on PhysicsMyths is so oversimplified, it’s almost as if it were made for children. I suspect it may be Nazi propoganda. It completely ignores 100 years of experimental verification of relativity, the evidence for gravitational waves being the latest piece of the puzzle. The European Space Agency explicitly states that they need to apply relativistic corrections to avoid drift. Do you think they are lying?
(2024-06-18, 08:00 AM)sbu Wrote: Wasn’t Skeptiko just a sad place in the with all those lies and conspiracy theories being circulated? I wonder if this Einstein hate is anti-semitic motivated? There are even people who thinks Einsteins theory is a liberal conspiracy - (https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/.../time-warp). The world is a sad place. We are definitely not here to learn anything! That's exactly what Skeptiko was. Let's hope PQ never goes there! |
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