Deathbed stories from my family!

Was just doing my daily scan of the forum and I remembered something from earlier today the good folks on this forum may appreciate (I scanned all other current threads, and could see none for NDEs or deathbed vision type experiences known to the members of this forum personally?); I learnt today from my mum that my grandmother (whom I & absolutely everyone in her large family completely adored and loved deeply) had a death bed vision when she passed away some 32 odd years ago!! I had absolutely no idea all this time, nobody ever mentioned it to me for some bizarre reason, or I forgot which I find hard to believe   And that makes it two out of four grandparents that had deathbed visions!

The reason the subject came up was because the one of my mum's best-friend's parents passed away in the last day or two, and this friend had had a dream two days before in which her brother, who had passed away before, said he was going to come to take their mother away. Two days later the mother died. The parent was very elderly anyway, just for details sake.

Anyway, I then learnt that my elderly grandmother, when feeling unwell, said she could see her father (whom she deeply loved I'm told) and that she wanted to go with him and not stay here anymore. Apparently she passed away a few hours later.

And blow me down, writing that has reminded me that I had heard that story before many, many years ago and had forgotten it! 

In regards my paternal grandfather, who passed away in his native Indian rural village in the Punjab a few years before I was born, on his deathbed was apparently gazing as if looking at something majestic, said out loud "open the windows, Guru Gobind Singh is coming on his horses to take me" (Gobind Singh is the 10th in the line of Sikh gurus, and the founder of the Sikh religion, and apparently my grandfather was a very sincerely pious/religious person, of the gentle variety, who used to do rosary prayer constantly).

So, there's 2 deathbed visions out of 4 grandparents!

Whilst I'm here and discussing Indo-centric experiences, there's one last one I know from familial background, and that was a person who lived in the same village as my father & grandfather back in India what must be 70 odd years ago. I have met the doctor of the village who tended to this person some 36 years ago! This person apparently "died", and upon returning spent the rest of his life telling the villagers what he saw whilst "dead"; hells and torment, all kinds of suffering and tortures. He used to tell everyone to live good and decent lives so they don't end up in hell like him, and he was sent back to tell everyone. Or something like, it's been more than 30 years since I heard this story last!

Take care everyone 

Manjit said > "I have met the doctor of the village who tended to this person some 36 years ago! This person apparently "died", and upon returning spent the rest of his life telling the villagers what he saw whilst "dead"; hells and torment, all kinds of suffering and tortures. He used to tell everyone to live good and decent lives so they don't end up in hell like him, and he was sent back to tell everyone. Or something like, it's been more than 30 years since I heard this story last!"

Very interesting stories, Manjit !  Did the man above give any indication what he'd actually done to deserve such an awful fate ?

Good stuff, Manjit.

I think many folks when they read this:

"Anyway, I then learnt that my elderly grandmother, when feeling unwell, said she could see her father (whom she deeply loved I'm told) and that she wanted to go with him and not stay here anymore. Apparently she passed away a few hours later."

They make the assumption that the vision is in some way related to the spirit of the departed father, in other words that it is somehow the disembodied spirit of the father appearing to your grandmother.


I find it interesting to consider that the source of these visions may not be related to the departed at all. Perhaps Occam's razor when applied would leave the explanation with the initial assumption. But in fact the source of the vision could be a positive "life" force drawing the departed across the veil to a place of spiritual rest, but one that has merely cloaked themselves in the presentation of the departed father. It could also be a negative force cloaking themselves in order to draw the departing spirit into a soul catcher, for instance something like Castaneda's black eagle that swallows up souls of the non-warriors. I've noticed a growing meme lately that flips the narrative of "entering the white light" and instead turns the white light into a soul trap. These themes are numerous and I believe stretch back as far as any other "afterlife" narratives, although I think they tend to be less popular given their dark nature.

Consider narratives like those from Joe Fisher's 'Siren Call of Hungry Ghosts' when channelled spirits "know" plenty about the lives of those on the physical plane. Also consider, for example, a recent story on Jim Harold's Best of Campfire shows. (Yes, I know. Embarrassment) In this story a completely credible witness described encountering a group of girls using a ouija board. Three entities were telling the girls a story of a murder/suicide, that was later corroborated by the fellow, including names and dates. At one point, while the girls were using the ouija in another room, the witness went alone into another room and asked the entity some questions including could the spirit name something that the witness had recently lost. They then returned to the room with the ouija to get the answers to his question and the spirit replied "ring" and "bed". He had in fact been thinking of a ring he had recently lost. But the reference to "bed" was a mystery to the witness. Upon returning home that night (he was a student living with his parents) his mom had cleaned his room and had found the ring underneath the bed. But the ring was no longer ring shaped. Instead it was flatted onto itself into a strip of metal.

My point being that, as clearly demonstrated through thousands of credible narratives, those living in the non-physical have some way to derive quite explicit and direct knowledge of our thoughts and likely our emotions. 

It may be comforting to imagine our loved ones waiting on the other side. (Not saying this is your particular viewpoint.) But it may be wise to keep an open mind as well.

Chuck

Very interesting stories, Manjit !  Did the man above give any indication what he'd actually done to deserve such an awful fate ?

Thanks Tim 

It's been a very long time since I've heard this story, but next time I speak to my mum I will ask her if she remembers the details. If I recall correctly, this was just an average guy from the village, not some really bad or evil guy or anything. After his experience, he described things like demons torturing souls, fire, prodding with forks, that kind of stuff! I have a vague recollection he may have tried to paint his visions, but I may be mixing that up with another memory. I will definitely ask for more detail and get back to you!

Chuck
They make the assumption that the vision is in some way related to the spirit of the departed father, in other words that it is somehow the disembodied spirit of the father appearing to your grandmother.

Hey Chuck, long time no chat, I hope you are keeping well during these strange times!

I have to say I entirely agree with sentiment of your post. Whilst I'm just posting the stories as simple data points told as descriptively honest as possible, as this kind of "data" or info maybe of interest to some, I'm not personally convinced, either, that each subject's narrative interpretation of the phenomena they encounter - or at least how they express it linguistically to survivors (wasn't there an excellent Skeptiko podcast years ago with a lady with the surname Smart I believe, that dips into this topic?) is necessarily an "objectively accurate" one?  

In other words, I am not personally convinced my mother's friend's actual brother's "soul" came to her in a dream, or that my grandmother's "father" literally came to her, or that Guru Gobind Singh came to take my grandfather away. I cannot remember where, perhaps it was the NDERF "recent experiences" webpage (which I catch up on every now and then: NDERF Current NDEs), but I recently read a quite interesting NDE report, but one that included the experiencer having Kid Cudi as their guide! I've just googled this person, they are a rapper that has not yet deceased, so they must be quite an advanced soul to be both a psychopomp and a successful rapper at the same time

It's an interesting idea that the "white light" may be some sort of "soul trap". Is it becoming a meme? Hehe, that Zap Oracle dude has a lot to answer for    I read Fisher's book after reading Zap's article on it, it's a strange and sad old tale. I've heard a few of these gnostic type cosmologies with a "God beyond God". Was it Gurdjieff who suggested the moon (white light?) eats souls of the unenlightened when they die, or someone/thing similar? I myself, a long time ago, followed an Indian neo-tantric guru/path which taught that at death, the angels of death come disguised as people you love, but once they take you further into the death process, they turn into their more demonic, tormenting selves. The only way to escape this cycle is through spiritual practice, and experience of these states of consciousness whilst alive. Or so the teaching goes.

A slightly different hermeneutic approach to these experiences is discussed in Nancy Evans Bush's book Dancing Past the Dark (I know, I've mentioned this book a few times now, but it really is good!), where she suggests that rather than telling us explicitly & definitely about the "after life", NDEs may be more about "this life" than we think. I can't help but think this is almost certainly true whatever their origin, because if the "traditional" interpretation of NDEs is true then there must be a "spiritual purpose" these people are allowed to remember and share these experiences with the community. If we were supposed to know objectively & with scientific evidence that there was an "afterlife", then we would have had the proof hundreds of years ago, but we still don't. These "experiencers" are functioning more as modern "shamans" than as "scientific data points" imo. And if the "traditional interpretation" of NDEs isn't true (but assuming there is something trans-mundane going on, which I think is almost certain), then again we are being "fed" these narratives for some sort of "purpose" (we can speculate it is for positive, neutral or negative intents, but I prefer to err on the side of assisting our evolution perhaps?)

 I have found this can be an emotional subject for a lot of people, so I don't really like to discuss my own speculations too much, but I have shared them here before.

I'm deeply fascinated by all these stories and experiences, shared by people like Fisher, or all the wonderful NDEs shared in the NDE thread here, as well as in all the other various arenas of the paranormal; meditation experiences, UFO & abductions, channelling, psychedelic, religious, synchronicity, psi etc. They're all like jigsaw pieces to me and a lot of the fun is trying to see the bigger picture. But for me I'm not personally convinced by what some consider to be the parsimonious explanation, that we are all individual souls and that these experiences are more or less accurate portrayals of our "soul's purpose & journey". The more information you are aware of, the less coherent such a narrative seems. A parsimonious explanation may suit the human need for simplicity and certainty, but there's no reason to assume reality itself is parsimonious.

A lot of people don't like the so called "super-psi" hypothesis, as vague and undefined as it is, but I think it is a useful idea. One of the biggest criticisms of this idea from proponents of the traditional "soul" interpretation is the lack of known mechanisms for such extra-ordinary and highly selective psi phenomena. This has always puzzled me, because there is no known mechanism for the traditional interpretation either, but alongside that that theory must also use super-psi to work, because how else does a soul from another dimension talk to a human being, other than through some sort of selective super-psi mechanism?    The incredulity of afterlife proponents at how "super-psi" could possibly work seems highly selective to me?

As the probably apocryphal tale goes, someone once asked a revered Zen Master "what happens when you die", and the Zen Master sagely replied "I don't know, I haven't died yet"    I think this is the only truly honest position any of us can take, imo.

Based on my own experiences - which has included full-blown hyper-real, ultra-realistic experiences of "past lives", lives as animals and insects, lives in/on other planets, and indeed millions of lives lived simultaneously throughout a variety of realities/planets, where you can remember the history, relationships, thoughts etc clearly of each person utterly convincingly as if it is real - and my obsessive research into these subjects, I think the best explanation is that of non-duality, that all is one mind manifesting as multiplicity infinitely dividing itself to create the illusion of individuality, and that all the infinite worlds are an intoxicating Divine Play or "leela". We are ultimately all inter-connected. So here we imagine ourself to be one soul, on a linear journey. Yet even our one soul is made up of millions or billions of individual cells, germs, bacteria etc. And so larger "souls" like that of mother earth or "Gaia" are made up of all our human and animal and plant souls, to make the "one soul" of Gaia. So is Gaia connected to the other planets and the Sun of our solar system. And so on and so on. My soul may just be a part of an "oversoul" that is living a million lives simultaneously (which could possibly explain my experience?). And so on and so on, up until the final "Absolute", which is All. This would of course provide an a priori basis to explain any and all so called "paranormal" or "supernatural" phenomena, if it were true. But who knows!

Anyway, that's enough rambling for today. I will let you know how it goes if I ever find myself on the other side of the veil, permanently speaking 

Cheers

Thanks Tim 

It's been a very long time since I've heard this story, but next time I speak to my mum I will ask her if she remembers the details. If I recall correctly, this was just an average guy from the village, not some really bad or evil guy or anything. After his experience, he described things like demons torturing souls, fire, prodding with forks, that kind of stuff! I have a vague recollection he may have tried to paint his visions, but I may be mixing that up with another memory. I will definitely ask for more detail and get back to you!


Hey Chuck, long time no chat, I hope you are keeping well during these strange times!

I have to say I entirely agree with sentiment of your post. Whilst I'm just posting the stories as simple data points told as descriptively honest as possible, as this kind of "data" or info maybe of interest to some, I'm not personally convinced, either, that each subject's narrative interpretation of the phenomena they encounter - or at least how they express it linguistically to survivors (wasn't there an excellent Skeptiko podcast years ago with a lady with the surname Smart I believe, that dips into this topic?) is necessarily an "objectively accurate" one?  

In other words, I am not personally convinced my mother's friend's actual brother's "soul" came to her in a dream, or that my grandmother's "father" literally came to her, or that Guru Gobind Singh came to take my grandfather away. I cannot remember where, perhaps it was the NDERF "recent experiences" webpage (which I catch up on every now and then: NDERF Current NDEs), but I recently read a quite interesting NDE report, but one that included the experiencer having Kid Cudi as their guide! I've just googled this person, they are a rapper that has not yet deceased, so they must be quite an advanced soul to be both a psychopomp and a successful rapper at the same time

It's an interesting idea that the "white light" may be some sort of "soul trap". Is it becoming a meme? Hehe, that Zap Oracle dude has a lot to answer for    I read Fisher's book after reading Zap's article on it, it's a strange and sad old tale. I've heard a few of these gnostic type cosmologies with a "God beyond God". Was it Gurdjieff who suggested the moon (white light?) eats souls of the unenlightened when they die, or someone/thing similar? I myself, a long time ago, followed an Indian neo-tantric guru/path which taught that at death, the angels of death come disguised as people you love, but once they take you further into the death process, they turn into their more demonic, tormenting selves. The only way to escape this cycle is through spiritual practice, and experience of these states of consciousness whilst alive. Or so the teaching goes.

A slightly different hermeneutic approach to these experiences is discussed in Nancy Evans Bush's book Dancing Past the Dark (I know, I've mentioned this book a few times now, but it really is good!), where she suggests that rather than telling us explicitly & definitely about the "after life", NDEs may be more about "this life" than we think. I can't help but think this is almost certainly true whatever their origin, because if the "traditional" interpretation of NDEs is true then there must be a "spiritual purpose" these people are allowed to remember and share these experiences with the community. If we were supposed to know objectively & with scientific evidence that there was an "afterlife", then we would have had the proof hundreds of years ago, but we still don't. These "experiencers" are functioning more as modern "shamans" than as "scientific data points" imo. And if the "traditional interpretation" of NDEs isn't true (but assuming there is something trans-mundane going on, which I think is almost certain), then again we are being "fed" these narratives for some sort of "purpose" (we can speculate it is for positive, neutral or negative intents, but I prefer to err on the side of assisting our evolution perhaps?)

 I have found this can be an emotional subject for a lot of people, so I don't really like to discuss my own speculations too much, but I have shared them here before.

I'm deeply fascinated by all these stories and experiences, shared by people like Fisher, or all the wonderful NDEs shared in the NDE thread here, as well as in all the other various arenas of the paranormal; meditation experiences, UFO & abductions, channelling, psychedelic, religious, synchronicity, psi etc. They're all like jigsaw pieces to me and a lot of the fun is trying to see the bigger picture. But for me I'm not personally convinced by what some consider to be the parsimonious explanation, that we are all individual souls and that these experiences are more or less accurate portrayals of our "soul's purpose & journey". The more information you are aware of, the less coherent such a narrative seems. A parsimonious explanation may suit the human need for simplicity and certainty, but there's no reason to assume reality itself is parsimonious.

A lot of people don't like the so called "super-psi" hypothesis, as vague and undefined as it is, but I think it is a useful idea. One of the biggest criticisms of this idea from proponents of the traditional "soul" interpretation is the lack of known mechanisms for such extra-ordinary and highly selective psi phenomena. This has always puzzled me, because there is no known mechanism for the traditional interpretation either, but alongside that that theory must also use super-psi to work, because how else does a soul from another dimension talk to a human being, other than through some sort of selective super-psi mechanism?    The incredulity of afterlife proponents at how "super-psi" could possibly work seems highly selective to me?

As the probably apocryphal tale goes, someone once asked a revered Zen Master "what happens when you die", and the Zen Master sagely replied "I don't know, I haven't died yet"    I think this is the only truly honest position any of us can take, imo.

Based on my own experiences - which has included full-blown hyper-real, ultra-realistic experiences of "past lives", lives as animals and insects, lives in/on other planets, and indeed millions of lives lived simultaneously throughout a variety of realities/planets, where you can remember the history, relationships, thoughts etc clearly of each person utterly convincingly as if it is real - and my obsessive research into these subjects, I think the best explanation is that of non-duality, that all is one mind manifesting as multiplicity infinitely dividing itself to create the illusion of individuality, and that all the infinite worlds are an intoxicating Divine Play or "leela". We are ultimately all inter-connected. So here we imagine ourself to be one soul, on a linear journey. Yet even our one soul is made up of millions or billions of individual cells, germs, bacteria etc. And so larger "souls" like that of mother earth or "Gaia" are made up of all our human and animal and plant souls, to make the "one soul" of Gaia. So is Gaia connected to the other planets and the Sun of our solar system. And so on and so on. My soul may just be a part of an "oversoul" that is living a million lives simultaneously (which could possibly explain my experience?). And so on and so on, up until the final "Absolute", which is All. This would of course provide an a priori basis to explain any and all so called "paranormal" or "supernatural" phenomena, if it were true. But who knows!

Anyway, that's enough rambling for today. I will let you know how it goes if I ever find myself on the other side of the veil, permanently speaking 

Cheers

This was the worst thing I could have read . I spend enough time irrationally worrying “what if I’m wrong and there is a hell” and the only other similar thing I have heard to what was posted here r references to the being of light being some sort of evil being , like where in the Bible it says something that even a demon or the devil can masquerade as a being of light . Now I just was made aware of these theories posted . Sucks for me !!

And it makes me wonder why I try to figure out anything or believe anything . A million theories . I wanna believe it’s my loved one coming to give me comfort and welcome / guide me to the afterlife . Maybe it is , Maybe it’s the devil, Maybe it’s wishful thinking , maybe it’s super psi... maybe it’s who knows what. It’s enough to drive one crazy!!

This was the worst thing I could have read . I spend enough time irrationally worrying “what if I’m wrong and there is a hell” and the only other similar thing I have heard to what was posted here r references to the being of light being some sort of evil being , like where in the Bible it says something that even a demon or the devil can masquerade as a being of light . Now I just was made aware of these theories posted . Sucks for me !!

And it makes me wonder why I try to figure out anything or believe anything . A million theories . I wanna believe it’s my loved one coming to give me comfort and welcome / guide me to the afterlife . Maybe it is , Maybe it’s the devil, Maybe it’s wishful thinking , maybe it’s super psi... maybe it’s who knows what. It’s enough to drive one crazy!!

The “it’s demons posing as your relatives” angle is quite a common one from religious people to any purported spirit contact, in my experience. It’s true there’s no way of knowing for certain if one accepts that it’s possible to so imitate a person we know well and love that we cannot tell the difference. The same is perhaps true To some extent  for every person we meet, I guess it’s a question of the extent to which we need certainty and to which that is possible. “What is the most likely explanation“ seems to me the best we can determine. 

I’ve asked on occasion why a “demon” would do this? To what end? Then we end up in a theological discussion based on religious beliefs that usually have no more basis than the original suggestion of a deception. It has to fit in with their pre-existing religious model.

I guess it is possible that post physical death a person hangs on to their religious beliefs and seeks to reinforce them in some way - I’ve never bought into the idea that as soon as we die, if we survive, we suddenly abandon our strongly held beliefs or become “angelic” or have deep knowledge, though perhaps some do.

There certainly are examples of purported spirits pretending to be something they’re not, eg Joe Fisher’s “Hungry Ghosts”. The objective appears to be ego and control. The context is very different though.

Thanks, Manjit. Good stuff!

This was the worst thing I could have read . I spend enough time irrationally worrying “what if I’m wrong and there is a hell” and the only other similar thing I have heard to what was posted here r references to the being of light being some sort of evil being , like where in the Bible it says something that even a demon or the devil can masquerade as a being of light . Now I just was made aware of these theories posted . Sucks for me !!

And it makes me wonder why I try to figure out anything or believe anything . A million theories . I wanna believe it’s my loved one coming to give me comfort and welcome / guide me to the afterlife . Maybe it is , Maybe it’s the devil, Maybe it’s wishful thinking , maybe it’s super psi... maybe it’s who knows what. It’s enough to drive one crazy!!

Hi, Bill there's been a lot of studies of this phenomenon (end of life experiences) recently. The largest one (I believe) ever carried out was by researchers Karlis Osis and Erlendur Haraldsson, who published it in the book "At the hour of Death" (what the dying see). It represented  data from over one thousand dying patients in America and India.

Anecdotes from people's families definitely have their place but solid research has to be given more weight, surely. Their (Osis and Haraldsson) opinion, based on the research, was that the afterlife hypothesis easily fits the data the best and for the vast majority, dying seems to be a very pleasant/joyous journey/transition into what is described (at least) as another world.

I don't remember reading about any reports of "demons" although the Indian responders do sometimes report Yamdoots coming to get them, which are apparently the messengers of their god Yama/Yamraj.

This was the worst thing I could have read . I spend enough time irrationally worrying “what if I’m wrong and there is a hell” and the only other similar thing I have heard to what was posted here r references to the being of light being some sort of evil being , like where in the Bible it says something that even a demon or the devil can masquerade as a being of light . Now I just was made aware of these theories posted . Sucks for me !!

Hi Bill37,

I'm really sorry to hear this was your reaction   I feel I am a terrible communicator - which isn't helped by the fact this is a vast, possibly infinitely complex subject, that is perhaps in the final analysis not amenable to the human language - but all I was doing in that comment was discussing some of the theories I have heard. All of us humans come to these subjects with different histories, psychologies, intentions and beliefs etc. Whilst I can appreciate for a lot of people "ignorance is bliss", for others knowledge and "truth", or at least the pursuit of it, can be equally intoxicating! As a forum that has an interest in all these phenomena from what I considered a mostly non-dogmatic, open-minded, non-specific-belief/religion/viewpoint, I considered it an appropriate space to share and discuss such theories and speculation.

That said, I am not sure to what extent my comments above express my own tentative understanding of life, death, consciousness and creation; that it is all ultimately a manifestation or expression of "something" so unimaginably vast & magnificent and the nature of which to which the closest human emotions or concepts relate are "love", "compassion", "ecstasy" etc, whereas "hells" are the product of a human mind bound by the illusion of individuality and separation

I think, perhaps like some Buddhist teachings, that "hell" is a state of mind, and that 2 people can be in the physically (spiritually?) same situation and circumstances, but one perceives a "hell" in their mind, whilst the other perceives a "heaven". It is the same with the visions people encounter during NDEs, be they hells or heavens, imo; same space, different minds. In my opinion, to know this is to be empowered, but I totally understand why others would feel terrified by the responsibility. I think the barriers to "heavenly" states of mind or consciousness, be it during the human life or in some potential "afterlife", are a lack of qualities such as love, compassion, forgiveness, empathy, tolerance, understanding, service etc. It is not that some "devil" is locking you up in a cell and torturing you in the afterlife, but that your mind is manifesting as these phenomena, so your own thoughts such as judgement, anger, enmity, jealousy etc reverberate back onto you. Judge not lest you be judged, and all that. I think this is hinting at non-duality. We are all in a sense "One" (or inter-connected if that's easier to digest), so to judge anyone is in a sense to judge yourself.

But the point is hell shouldn't be feared, it is a temporary state of mind, imo, which can be completely transformed into a heaven by the slightest mental movement towards positivity or the "light"; a little bit of love or compassion, surrendering to "God", calling out a prayer etc. I think it is a particularly strange and incoherent sort of belief to imagine that some sort of Magnificent Being has created all this glorious physical creation, and to those so inclined like myself an infinitely more glorious "metaphysical" or mental realm, and then decided/needed to punish us dumb, puny human mortals for eternity in hell just for doing or not doing something no 2 humans can agree on is the "right" "thing", probably because of nature/nurture conditions far outside their control anyway, for their brief life as a human being!! This seems like a particularly anthropomorphic fantasy to me. Much like many of the Gods humanity have created. I envisage "God" to be something far more magnificent, far more loving, and far less demented, myself.  

Anyway to give a closer picture of my own attitude to life, death and a possible hereafter, much like most of my current beliefs and experience, I cede to Rumi because I could write for another million years and not say it as well as him!:

"“On the day I die, when I’m being carried
toward the grave, don’t weep. Don’t say,
He’s gone! He’s gone. Death has nothing to do with going away. The sun sets and
the moon sets, but they’re not gone.
Death is a coming together. The tomb
looks like a prison, but it’s really
release into union. The human seed goes
down in the ground like a bucket into
the well where Joseph is. It grows and
comes up full of some unimagined beauty.
Your mouth closes here, and immediately
opens with a shout of joy there.”"

"I placed one foot on the wide plain
of death, and some grand
immensity sounded on the emptiness.

I have felt nothing ever
like the wild wonder of that moment.

Longing is the core of mystery.
Longing itself brings the cure.
The only rule is, Suffer the pain.

Your desire must be disciplined,
and what you want to happen
in time, sacrificed.”"

"Die happily and look forward to taking up a new and better form. Like the sun, only when you set in the west can you rise in the east."

"I died as a mineral and became a plant, I died as a plant and rose to animal, I died as an animal and I was Man. Why should I fear? When was I less by dying?"

"Our death is our wedding with eternity."

"“Be certain that in the religion of Love there are no believers and unbelievers. Love embraces all.”"

"“Stop acting so small. You are the universe in ecstatic motion.”"

"“This place is a dream. Only a sleeper considers it real. Then death comes like dawn, and you wake up laughing at what you thought was your grief.”"

"“My soul is from elsewhere, I’m sure of that,
and I intend to end up there.
This drunkenness began in some other tavern.
When I get back around to that place,
I’ll be completely sober.”"

"Sell your cleverness and buy bewilderment."

"“This being human is a guest house. Every morning is a new arrival. A joy, a depression, a meanness, some momentary awareness comes as an unexpected visitor...Welcome and entertain them all. Treat each guest honorably. The dark thought, the shame, the malice, meet them at the door laughing, and invite them in. Be grateful for whoever comes, because each has been sent as a guide from beyond.”"

"“But listen to me. For one moment
quit being sad. Hear blessings
dropping their blossoms
around you.”"

"“Christian, Jew, Muslim, shaman, Zoroastrian, stone, ground, mountain, river, each has a secret way of being with the mystery, unique and not to be judged”"

"“At night, I open the window
and ask the moon to come
and press its face against mine.
Breathe into me.
Close the language-door
and open the love-window.
The moon won't use the door,
only the window.”"

"“Give up to grace. The ocean takes care of each wave 'til it gets to shore. You need more help than you know.”"

"“I searched for God among the Christians and on the Cross and therein I found Him not.
I went into the ancient temples of idolatry; no trace of Him was there.
I entered the mountain cave of Hira and then went as far as Qandhar but God I found not.
With set purpose I fared to the summit of Mount Caucasus and found there only 'anqa's habitation.
Then I directed my search to the Kaaba, the resort of old and young; God was not there even.
Turning to philosophy I inquired about him from ibn Sina but found Him not within his range.
I fared then to the scene of the Prophet's experience of a great divine manifestation only a "two bow-lengths' distance from him" but God was not there even in that exalted court.
Finally, I looked into my own heart and there I saw Him; He was nowhere else.”"

Errr, okay, I seem to have gone off into a Rumi Rabbit-hole there.....time to log off and have a cup of tea I think.
Take care Bill37 & everyone else!!