Consciousness restored in man after 15 years in vegetative state

Steve said> Collectively agreeable discussions seem like affirmations rather seeking the truth.

You're not seeking the truth, though. You're just rooted deep into a denial of everything, all anomalous phenomena, without being open minded and fair about the evidence for it.

Just to keep hand waving everything away (all the case reports, studies and observations) isn't being sceptical, it's just being closed minded and dogmatic. If you were a true sceptic, you wouldn't draw any conclusions until enough data was gathered and the experiments were finished.

To be fair (in my opinion) what you mean is that Steve isn't seeking your truth. I'm sure that Steve has his own truth that is just as real to him as yours is to you. 

Is he "open-minded" or is he truly skeptical--that is another question.

I have to guess that Steve enjoys this community as a community or he would have no reason to be here otherwise.

I’m definitely interested in the subject tim. I just find it takes me so long to become sufficiently familiar with the body of evidence in these subjects, that I have to restrict myself, otherwise I find I just end up with a very superficial view of the everything.

That's good Obiwan. Here's a link to a Bruce Greyson paper that fairly comprehensively covers the angles. It's a bit out of date now but it's useful.

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/ttzlibra...-t598.html

To be fair (in my opinion) what you mean is that Steve isn't seeking your truth. I'm sure that Steve has his own truth that is just as real to him as yours is to you. 

Is he "open-minded" or is he truly skeptical--that is another question.

I have to guess that Steve enjoys this community as a community or he would have no reason to be here otherwise.

The question in my mind is for how long do I keep the faith that Tim and many others have convinced themselves of when I have not in my lifetime not seen?

To be fair (in my opinion) what you mean is that Steve isn't seeking your truth. I'm sure that Steve has his own truth that is just as real to him as yours is to you. 

Is he "open-minded" or is he truly skeptical--that is another question.

I have to guess that Steve enjoys this community as a community or he would have no reason to be here otherwise.

No, I do mean Steve isn't seeking the truth. The truth as regards consciousness... is it bottom up or top down. When he said that we weren't seeking the truth, he was talking about me already having made up my mind. That's true, I have I accept that the brain is not the producer of consciousness but I will be willing to rethink if something turns up that proves it's not.

He has already made up his mind whatever new evidence is placed before him. He won't look at it.

I'm getting the sense here that you're doing your policing routine for the benefit of the community again. I'm the bad guy again right ?  I  don't see the relevance of this comment you've made.

 I have to guess that Steve enjoys this community as a community or he would have no reason to be here otherwise.

 Have I said otherwise. Am I being anti-social ? I simply responded to his question. Don't see what your problem is.

The question in my mind is for how long do I keep the faith that Tim and many others have convinced themselves of when I have not in my lifetime not seen?

The question in my mind is for how long do I keep the faith that Tim and many others have convinced themselves of when I have not in my lifetime not seen?

No, I do mean Steve isn't seeking the truth. The truth as regards consciousness... is it bottom up or top down. When he said that we weren't seeking the truth, he was talking about me already having made up my mind. That's true, I have I accept that the brain is not the producer of consciousness but I will be willing to rethink if something turns up that proves it's not.

He has already made up his mind whatever new evidence is placed before him. He won't look at it.

I'm getting the sense here that you're doing your policing routine for the benefit of the community again. I'm the bad guy again right ?  I  don't see the relevance of this comment you've made.

 I have to guess that Steve enjoys this community as a community or he would have no reason to be here otherwise.

 Have I said otherwise. Am I being anti-social ? I simply responded to his question. Don't see what your problem is.

I'm just trying to make conversation, Tim. Not attacking you. Maybe another day. Is this stuff really that serious?

I'm just trying to make conversation, Tim. Not attacking you. Maybe another day. Is this stuff really that serious?

Okay, sorry Chuck no worries. Just to point out, I try to make sure I don't post any bullshit or anything I can't back up. If I do then by all means point it out but the post above that you referred to as far as I can see was alright. (IMHO)

No probs, Tim!

The bad news about a story like this is that it will encourage some to keep people on life support for years trapping  some poor person in a possibly awful state between life and death. 

I know I never want this to happen to me, and why I just spoke to a lawyer a few days ago on making sure my wishes are known.

The person on life support chose that course including the experience of it rendered by the (in)actions of others who also agreed to play the part that they have. Just as your co-creation with your attorney.

What's bad about that?

How can  experience be corroborated?

?? Really?? 

Uh, I don't know, perhaps a second, a third and a forth witness testify to seeing the same thing...

The definition of corroboration is- "to make more certain", right?