Commentary thread for tim's "NDE's" thread

He was transferred from his place of work unconscious after a stroke...taken to hospital unconscious. He remained unconscious and had a second stroke and cardiac arrest 8 hours later.

From the moment of going unconscious (at work) until cardiac arrest (8 hours later) he remembered nothing (dreamless sleep as he put it) until he "woke up" out of his body up in the corner of the ICU looking down on his physical body. He saw all the commotion of the doctors and nurses and saw his mother being shepherded out and then he realised he had died. He remembered having the thought "I died" and noted that he had a very solid view of everything and contemplated how ugly his body was.

Thanks Tim. I suspected so, but wanted to be sure because he commented about the procedures. It's a remarkable NDE... The acquisition of sensory information throughout the experience -from the first stroke all the way to him waking up during the intubation- seems highly unlikely, and even if that was possible, the capacity to "process" it into something coherent is virtually null in that state.

Many will have already seen this report from Stefan Von Jankovich, the Hungarian architect who was clinically dead for several minutes after an horrific car accident. I sent it to the Brazilian physicist mentioned above who was so impressed with it, he told me he's going to put it up on his channel. I posted it on Skeptiko a while back so it needs to be here really. I'll be posting additional information in a different thread on Von Jankovich's insights into previous lives he had seen during his NDE which he was able to check out to some degree.

My best experience was my death.   By Stefan von Jankovitch.

I was always a healthy, athletic, very active person.  I had been concerned mainly with the everyday  material earthly goals..... It  took ....

This piece contains so many of the classic NDE aspects. A fantastic story. Thanks for passing along...

OTOH- it is all probably just a combination of: oxygen deprivation, guesswork, and coincidence right? 

This piece contains so many of the classic NDE aspects. A fantastic story. Thanks for passing along...

OTOH- it is all probably just a combination of: oxygen deprivation, guesswork, and coincidence right? 

Thanks, jkmac. You must have read Malf's contributions (to NDE's)  then.

Many will have already seen this report from Stefan Von Jankovich, the Hungarian architect who was clinically dead for several minutes after an horrific car accident. I sent it to the Brazilian physicist mentioned above who was so impressed with it, he told me he's going to put it up on his channel. I posted it on Skeptiko a while back so it needs to be here really. I'll be posting additional information in a different thread on Von Jankovich's insights into previous lives he had seen during his NDE which he was able to check out to some degree.

By Stefan von Jankovich: 
......................................
......................................

 In the scenes (I witnessed) I was not only the leading 'actor,'  but also an observer hovering over the whole event in four- or multi-dimensional space and could simultaneously see everything from above, from below and from all sides the whole event.  I hovered above myself. I looked at "me" from every side and listened to what I myself said. I saw, heard and felt what I had thought.

  My 'conscience' analysed my thoughts and actions instantly and I judged myself, whether this or that act had been good or bad. It was very strange that harmonious, positive memories surfaced in some scenes that would be defined by our current social and religious morality as bad deeds or 'sins.' On the other hand, many of what would be termed as good deeds in earthly life produced negative feelings, rated as poor, when the basic ideas/motivations were selfish, egotistical self serving and not harmonious. Good and evil are measured in the afterlife with a different scale.

 The second remarkable phenomenon was that the scenes I assessed as negative (and therefore felt remorse at)  were then eradicated in the judgment. There remained only those scenes were I and all other parties were happy and harmony prevailed for all.

  After this marvellous multi-dimensional theater show of my life, came a sort of closing "balance sheet" so to speak, which was drafted by me,,, I cannot formulate it.... But I felt that I would not give myself a good mark in this test

........................................................

 The goal of life is death as a beginning into another state of existence of our ego-consciousness.  Our goal is to try to pass our tests/ exams to be able to achieve a positive overall assessment, so that we don't have to repeat it all again, so that the continued existence of our ego-consciousness can be done in another, matter-less, advanced state.

This is certainly an impressive NDE. I have a few comments. Jankovich seems very confident and happy with the ultimate justice and goodness and purpose of life in general, based on his particular deep NDE. Unfortunately, this account leaves a lot out as a comprehensively complete review and assessment of the experiences of many lives. 

In his life review he appears to have judged and focused on his acts relative to other people. But there are all sorts of tragic, negative and from a personal standpoint unjust things that happen to some people that this experiencer doesn't go into (maybe because they didn't happen to him). Hypothetically, how about how he dealt with long periods of mental and/or physical misery, despair and even agonizing suffering, due to circumstances beyond his control in his personality nature (due to genetics and upbringing for instance) combined with interactions with hostile or cruel persons. Such a case is actually all too common and can ruin a life. 

Would such an too possible hypothetical experiencer still think the scheme and purpose of life Jankovich describes to be such a wonderful thing? Would he still think that he personally chose this life? And if he thinks he remembers doing that, wouldn't he severely berate himself for making such a huge mistake?

Would such an too possible hypothetical experiencer still think the scheme and purpose of life Jankovich describes to be such a wonderful thing? Would he still think that he personally chose this life? And if he thinks he remembers doing that, wouldn't he severely berate himself for making such a huge mistake?

I don't think whether someone is happy or not with what they have done with the opportunities in their life would change whether they understood that they chose their life. The two things don't really relate in my mind. 

The self-berating would be about how he dealt with the various situations, not that the situations arose in the first place.

This is certainly an impressive NDE. I have a few comments. Jankovich seems very confident and happy with the ultimate justice and goodness and purpose of life in general, based on his particular deep NDE. Unfortunately, this account leaves a lot out as a comprehensively complete review and assessment of the experiences of many lives. 

In his life review he appears to have judged and focused on his acts relative to other people. But there are all sorts of tragic, negative and from a personal standpoint unjust things that happen to some people that this experiencer doesn't go into (maybe because they didn't happen to him). Hypothetically, how about how he dealt with long periods of mental and/or physical misery, despair and even agonizing suffering, due to circumstances beyond his control in his personality nature (due to genetics and upbringing for instance) combined with interactions with hostile or cruel persons. Such a case is actually all too common and can ruin a life. 

Would such an too possible hypothetical experiencer still think the scheme and purpose of life Jankovich describes to be such a wonderful thing? Would he still think that he personally chose this life? And if he thinks he remembers doing that, wouldn't he severely berate himself for making such a huge mistake?

"this account leaves a lot out as a comprehensively complete review and assessment of the experiences of many lives. "

Thanks for the comment. I don't get what you mean by that TBH though. The life review focusses on the life of the experiencer and what effects it had on others and they do get plenty of insight into how other people were affected but it's primarily about the experiencer in the last examination. 

While he was over there he was aware of many other lives he'd had (apparently) sometimes as a woman. I'm going to post those as soon as I can get it organised.  

I can't see anything there that rings any alarm bells for me. Maybe you could be a bit more specific ? I'm probably missing what you are trying to point out.

I don't think whether someone is happy or not with what they have done with the opportunities in their life would change whether they understood that they chose their life. The two things don't really relate in my mind. 

The self-berating would be about how he dealt with the various situations, not that the situations arose in the first place.

This NDEer understood as a result of his NDE that somehow he himself seems to have chosen his life. What if in fact he had had a miserable life mainly because of circumstances beyond his human control (the misery and pain were inevitable regardless of reasonable and likely responses to those conditions by the human personality)? This is the case in all too many instances. But he still must have chosen to go through the misery in order to learn some sort of lesson. 

It seems to me that the human person might likely be very conflicted over this, and still consider this to be a major injustice to him by the "system", and even angrily reject that part of the NDE-imparted belief system. He as his human personality certainly would never make such a choice, regardless of the soul benefit. This contradiction could lead to major cognitive dissonance. 

Jankovich seems happy with the "system" he was privileged to discover through his NDE, and to have no such conflicts. Is this because he didn't have a life like that?  Another possible explanation for this apparent contradiction comes to mind, though that would conflict with a lot of veridical NDE evidence. Could it be because his NDE was actually in large part confabulated by his subconscious mind in response to needs of the psyche in this critical situation? Such a confabulation would not necessarily be rational, and would be fuelled by unconscious needs and desires using belief system information already in the mind and memory.

Don’t we all choose our life to some extent anyway? I mean the choices we make shape it don’t they? I realise that lots of things happen that we don’t choose too.

This NDEer understood as a result of his NDE that somehow he himself seems to have chosen his life.

This NDEer understood as a result of his NDE that somehow he himself seems to have chosen his life.

Not at all, nbtruthman ! He was completely surprised and amazed by the whole event. He wasn't that kind of person, (interested in things like this)....he says so in his opening statement.


"Could it be because his NDE was actually in large part confabulated by his subconscious mind in response to needs of the psyche in this critical situation?"

I'm afraid you've got the wrong end of the stick. Back tomorrow.

This NDEer understood as a result of his NDE that somehow he himself seems to have chosen his life. What if in fact he had had a miserable life mainly because of circumstances beyond his human control (the misery and pain were inevitable regardless of reasonable and likely responses to those conditions by the human personality)? This is the case in all too many instances. But he still must have chosen to go through the misery in order to learn some sort of lesson. 

It seems to me that the human person might likely be very conflicted over this, and still consider this to be a major injustice to him by the "system", and even angrily reject that part of the NDE-imparted belief system. He as his human personality certainly would never make such a choice, regardless of the soul benefit. It could lead to major cognitive dissonance. 

Jankovich seems happy with the "system" he was privileged to discover through his NDE, and have no such conflicts. Is this because he didn't have a life like that?  Another possible explanation comes to mind, though that would conflict with a lot of veridical NDE evidence. Could it be because his NDE was actually in large part confabulated by his subconscious mind in response to needs of the psyche in this critical situation? Such a confabulation would not necessarily be rational, and would be fuelled by unconscious needs and desires using belief system information already in the mind and memory.

Or maybe while in the "non-physical" he saw all the good that came from this life of apparent misery. Maybe he learned that it is possible to choose a hard life, but one that is what was necessary for some lessons he needed to learn.

When you watch a movie and the character goes through some hard times, do you walk out of the theater angry? Or do you see how the things the person went through made them what they are?

I have read channeled accounts where people who have passed on say that they see their recent life as a movie or a play,, that it wasn't "real". 

Yes, these are perspectives that require you to be dead to experience, but perhaps those who have an NDE get to experience this perspective, so when they return they realize these things.