Commentary thread for tim's "NDE's" thread

Yes, I've seen it Enrique, but thanks for posting it !

There's a couple of videos here you might like but of course you may well have seen them (in fact you most probably will have) so apologies if that is the case.

A Spanish guy recounting his NDE which occurred to him when he was involved in a collision of some kind. He seems to be a very down to earth type of guy who you can tell is absolutely sincere and has experienced something extraordinary.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Thr_ygfwxn0

And this one, Rafael Marco, previously very healthy but experienced a catastrophic aortic dissection (yet another one). He recounts amongst many other things (an initial OBE in his apartment ?) wandering around the operating room during his 12 hour operation (which they assumed would more than likely fail) and seeing one of the cardiologists singing a little song about an orange and a lemon as he walked out of the room (or something like that?)

Marco would have been cooled to a temperature of 18 degrees C for this operation (apparently) so he would have had no brainwaves.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NuiamkilrQ

Thanks, Tim, great stuff. The first guy is Mexican, not Spanish, and from humble social background. He's telling his story with great emotion, the experience has huge impact on him. The second guy is Spanish. A classic NDE, with OBE, with encounters with loved ones.... In his OBE, while operated on, his spirit wonders outside of the OR, ad sees one of the surgeons with an apple in one hand and an orange in the other, whistling a melody. He also mentions other phenomena that took place later one, with a hellish part, but he doesn't geo into it. He says that when he was recovering, he told the whistling surgeon he had seen him walking and whistling outside of the OR with an apple and an orange. They guy turned pale and went away in a hurry. I would like to hear about his hellish part of the NDE, it's a shame he doesn't get into it here

Thanks, Tim, great stuff. The first guy is Mexican, not Spanish,

Right, Thanks Enrique !

In his OBE, while operated on, his spirit wonders outside of the OR, ad sees one of the surgeons with an apple in one hand and an orange in the other, whistling a melody.

Very impressive !

I would like to hear about his hellish part of the NDE, it's a shame he doesn't get into it here

I don't like to think about hell but from what I've been able to gather, it's there. I know it's not cool to be judgmental
but I've come across some individuals who are certainly putting their names forward as candidates.

@Enrique my friend

Please could you translate the bit from 9.30 to 10.36 of Rafael's experience ? Is he out of body, half in half out of the ambulance accompanied by dead relatives who are telling him not to worry ? Many thanks !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NuiamkilrQ

Hi, Tim,
he says, while he was in the ambulance, he was half-there half-in another plane, feeling the presence of people he used to know, who were already dead. They dispelled his last doubts about where he was, telling him that his life on Earth was over, telling him not to worry, that he was going to a beautiful place. At the same time his "half" that was still on this plane, in the ambulance, heard his wife's cousin, who was paramedic on this ambulance, ask him how he felt. He responded "José, I feel bad. I'm dying and I know it. But don't you worry, I'm not suffering, I feel great, I'm in heaven". After that, they arrived to the hospital. What's curious here is that separation of the self in two parts, one xperiencing an NDE, the other, aware of being in this reality. Have enver heard of an NDE of this nature.

Have never heard of an NDE of this nature.

Thanks very much for that, Enrique ! It's a foot in both worlds type of thing. I don't pretend to understand how these things work but that duality of feeling separate and also feeling still attached to the physical is not uncommon.

Thanks very much for that, Enrique ! It's a foot in both worlds type of thing. I don't pretend to understand how these things work but that duality of feeling separate and also feeling still attached to the physical is not uncommon.

Any time, Tim, buddy... Any Spanish, Russian or French translation, you can count on me. (As well as on a few pints on me if you happen to be in Madrid )

Any Spanish, Russian or French translation, you can count on me.

That's impressive, Enrique and very liberating, I should imagine. I'll definitely have a beer or six with you if I ever come to Madrid in the near future !

This is University of California philosopher, John Martin Fischer, talking at length about the Immortality project and some recent findings (including Buddhist monks and their fear of death/surprising conclusion).

What I found quite amusing is that the talk is mainly about near death experiences (including Parnia) which he is clearly obsessed with and Fischer negotiates the subject both as someone who isn't quite familiar enough with it (is that deliberate?) but also as an academic obviously restricted by his philosophical secular atheism.

He carefully avoids getting to the crux of the matter, ie side stepping the vast number of documented veridical experiences without brain function, whilst also appearing perfectly reasonable. To be fair, he does sort of allude to the unexplainable paradox, but just when you think he's going to say, yes, you know, I actually think there's something really interesting going on here, he carefully pulls back from losing his 'scientific' credibility. Personally, I think Fischer has moved (just a bit) Nice guy, anyway.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=626UaGNMdMk

I wouldn't normally post an NDE like this although it's clearly authentic (she also reveals a couple of photos of herself in the hospital to show us how seriously ill she was). But we are short of material at the moment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0i6XCS1D2UA&t=18s

Always interesting to see how "love" is nearly always present in NDEs, and not just normal love but a powerful form too. Chemicals in the brain? Maybe, although it doesn't really sound that likely. High quantities of drugs, such as DMT, would be needed to produce a similar effect, and they would either show up on blood tests (which, as far as Italy is concerned, are done regularly in hospitalized patients) or would have effects lasting for hours, so I suspect this kind of feelings would show up in patients who regain consciousness or never lost it in first place (I think about the mixed anesthesia awareness/NDE case, where the NDE lasted just maybe a couple minutes. What kind of chemical/drug dissipates so rapidly? And so on for many other cases.)

As far as random neuronal activity/firing neurons, I'm not an expert and surely not a neurologist, but it sounds... odd. Using plain logic, i suspect bursts of incoherent elecrtical activity to produce random feelings and emotions,. Instead, we have a repeating pattern.

The question that still buggers me a lot is "why the heck do NDEs only show up in about 10% or so of people?". If the event was triggered by chemicals releasing in high stress situations i would expect it to show up much more frequently. Anoxia doesn't normally produces the same effects as NDEs, so it remains a big puzzle. Maybe, just maybe, as Parnia keeps hinting it is all correlated with memory. it might just be that most people experience the NDE, yet just a relatively small number is able to actually recall it. Why, and how is beyond me. NDEers seem to recall really well their memories even years after the event, how is something that 90% of people deletes from their memory getting stored so perfectly inside the remaining 10% of individuals? Really fascinating.

"why the heck do NDEs only show up in about 10% or so of people?".

Van Lommel's study yielded 18%, Raf.  Sabom's much higher. The 10% figure is too low but my guess as to why most patients don't report an NDE when they've been resuscitated is that the drugs they were given, wipe or restrict their memories of it (Parnia states this). Also cardiac arrest is a massive insult to the brain and any "insult" to the brain causes memory loss (according to the medical experts).

Van Lommel's study yielded 18%, Raf.  Sabom's much higher. The 10% figure is too low but my guess as to why most patients don't report an NDE when they've been resuscitated is that the drugs they were given, wipe or restrict their memories of it (Parnia states this). Also cardiac arrest is a massive insult to the brain and any "insult" to the brain causes memory loss (according to the medical experts).

I agree Tim. Apparently we all dream every time we sleep. I never remember mine or even that I had a dream. I often think the question “why aren’t there more” misses the point really.