Commentary thread for tim's "NDE's" thread

Dr's Jeff Long, Kevin Nelson and one of the cardiac surgeons who treated her, Hans George Kaulbach discuss her NDE here. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNT57zD8AyY

I really wanted to watch this but its blocked in America now...

I really wanted to watch this but its blocked in America now...

Did you try this alternate link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwHPcXl27q8

On second thoughts, though that's the same video, it has been carefully edited to remove Kevin Nelson's comments. That's a shame, because they are interesting.

You might try a proxy server, perhaps, to choose a location outside America.

I really wanted to watch this but its blocked in America now...

That's a shame. We get the same thing over here on some American stuff. Nelson "believes" REM intrusion (waking dreams) are responsible for NDE's and that the veridical observation content is gained by patient's eyes opening slightly or just enough to see whatever they claim to see ...and then added into their narrative subconsciously and then it's all blended together. 

I'm pretty certain he's just deliberately being a "dick" about it....he can't really be a fool as a neurologist. He must be aware that lucid dreaming is not an adequate explanation...and as for patients opening their eyes.... :/ 

Sadly, Hans Kaulbach died recently :

 https://traueranzeigen.noz.de/traueranze...g-kaulbach

That's a shame. We get the same thing over here on some American stuff. Nelson "believes" REM intrusion (waking dreams) are responsible for NDE's and that the veridical observation content is gained by patient's eyes opening slightly or just enough to see whatever they claim to see ...and then added into their narrative subconsciously and then it's all blended together. 

I'm pretty certain he's just deliberately being a "dick" about it....he can't really be a fool as a neurologist. He must be aware that lucid dreaming is not an adequate explanation...and as for patients opening their eyes.... :/ 

Sadly, Hans Kaulbach died recently :

 https://traueranzeigen.noz.de/traueranze...g-kaulbach

Yeah Tim, I'm pretty much with you. I did say earlier that Nelson's comments were interesting - that shouldn't be taken to mean I thought what he was saying made any kind of sense. More that they were like a kind of curious find in a museum.

Did you try this alternate link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwHPcXl27q8

On second thoughts, though that's the same video, it has been carefully edited to remove Kevin Nelson's comments. That's a shame, because they are interesting.

You might try a proxy server, perhaps, to choose a location outside America.

Also blocked. I suppose I will have to look into VPN's. Been a while since I've had to use one.

Also blocked. I suppose I will have to look into VPN's. Been a while since I've had to use one.

That could be useful

Have you checked, I sent you a private message?

That could be useful

Have you checked, I sent you a private message?

Thanks, have to say I was expecting a little more than "They're watching through their eyes and reconstructing the event".

Thanks, have to say I was expecting a little more than "They're watching through their eyes and reconstructing the event".

Yes, very much. Watching through eyes half-open. I mean seriously, that doesn't stand up to a moment's scrutiny. But if these best-attempts at a conventional explanation are so useless - as I said earlier, "it has been carefully edited to remove Kevin Nelson's comments. That's a shame, because they are interesting" - where does that leave us? Or more specifically, where does it leave those who subscribe to that conventional school of thought?

- I'd suggest, "without a leg to stand on".

By far the most downright stupid dumbass "explanation" came from Malf and Paul when they suggested that the two surgeons involved in the Lloyd Rudy case had unwittingly "fed" the patient the information by accident. 

Let alone the fact that to even propose such a thing, one would have to assume that the patient was an idiot, two highly experienced heart surgeons were fooled into thinking that the information that came from the patient had actually only been merely accidentally "planted" by themselves and their assistants.   I don't dislike Malf but when I heard that I realised that many so called 'sceptics' are simply outright deniers.

By far the most downright stupid dumbass "explanation" came from Malf and Paul when they suggested that the two surgeons involved in the Lloyd Rudy case had unwittingly "fed" the patient the information by accident. 

Let alone the fact that to even propose such a thing, one would have to assume that the patient was an idiot, two highly experienced heart surgeons were fooled into thinking that the information that came from the patient had actually only been merely accidentally "planted" by themselves and their assistants.   I don't dislike Malf but when I heard that I realised that many so called 'sceptics' are simply outright deniers.

Well, the eye explanation fails pretty badly in that specific case.. (see below - https://www.dailygrail.com/2014/02/heart...n-science/) but I can see how it might explain some other phenomenon, some of the time. As a lucid dreamer and out of body explorer, one experience I had while in bed was the experience of leaving my body and traveling into the home next door, I saw clearly the neighbor had several women over which was unusual and they were talking. I woke myself up after some time, and saw a woman just where I had left her, on the front step of our duplex. However my first explanation of the event was not that it was a veridical experience but rather in the heightened sensory period of waking sleep I may have constructed from idle chatter the experience.


I don't see why its so absurd to speculate that deep brain structures may still be active enough to construct some experiences, some of the time - though I agree it does not appear credible in that specific case.

From the article.
"…This was not a hoax, no way, this was as real as it gets. We were
absolutely shocked that he would come back after 20 or more minutes,
we had pronounced him dead on the operating room table and told the
wife that he had died.
…we thought all along his description was quite accurate regarding things he said he saw or heard. Patients’ eyes are always shut during surgery, most of the time they are taped so they do not open since this can cause injury to the corneas."