Commentary thread for tim's "NDE's" thread

We appear to approach the subject of what constitutes death from understandings very different from each others.

No, Leadville. With respect (because you seem like a nice guy/girl/woman) it's nothing to do with approaches.

I gave you an example of a girl who had been without any bodily vital signs for 5-10 hours. Her body temperature was very low probably as low as the temperature of the ground she lay upon, who knows.

The doctors knew she was dead. You can see when a person is dead in a situation like that; doctors would have known instantly...anyone would have known, even a child, a dog or the village idiot (apologies to all village idiots) who may have lived in the woods and might have reported it, would have known she was dead.

Cardiopulmonary resuscitation was tried (probably because the parents wanted them to attempt it who knows ?) but of course it didn't work.

Question ?  What state is this girl now in after 5-10-11 hours with no heartbeat and who has not responded to what would have been no doubt a very determined effort to bring her back ? Are you telling me this girl is not dead ?

This girl is dead. And if this girl had lived anywhere else in the world (except South Korea and some parts of the US) she would have been taken to the undertakers where they would have begun the embalming process.

Fortunately for her, Japan has very advanced healthcare and they had a machine which gave them an option to try one more
time. There would not have been any guarantee of success, but in this case it worked.

Now, if what you're saying is true, logically speaking, every person that died (100's of thousands per year) in the UK from a cardiac arrest was never dead because they weren't treated with an ECMO machine.

Do you see how illogical your position is ?

Anyway as I've said, there's little point in me pleading with you to accept what I'm trying to explain to you. It puts a whole new slant on the famous 'Monty Python' dead parrot sketch....I guess you would argue that that parrot is not dead....

. It puts a whole new slant on the famous 'Monty Python' dead parrot sketch....I guess you would argue that that parrot is not dead....

...and hasn’t ceased to be ?

Doctors Eben Alexander, Mary Neal and Sam Parnia on the Dr Oz show. 22/1/2018

http://www.doctoroz.com/episode/medical-...been-there

No, Leadville. With respect (because you seem like a nice guy/girl/woman) it's nothing to do with approaches. 
I disagree.  I was trying to be reach an accommodation but you've thrown it back in my face.

"I gave you an example of a girl who had been without any bodily vital signs for 5-10 hours. Her body temperature was very low probably as low as the temperature of the ground she lay upon, who knows.

The doctors knew she was dead. You can see when a person is dead in a situation like that; doctors would have known instantly...anyone would have known, even a child, a dog or the village idiot (apologies to all village idiots) who may have lived in the woods and might have reported it, would have known she was dead.

Cardiopulmonary resuscitation was tried (probably because the parents wanted them to attempt it who knows ?) but of course it didn't work.

Question ?  What state is this girl now in after 5-10-11 hours with no heartbeat and who has not responded to what would have been no doubt a very determined effort to bring her back ? Are you telling me this girl is not dead ?

I'm not telling you ANYTHING except that if she had been dead she wouldn't now be alive.

This girl is dead. And if this girl had lived anywhere else in the world (except South Korea and some parts of the US) she would have been taken to the undertakers where they would have begun the embalming process.

Fortunately for her, Japan has very advanced healthcare and they had a machine which gave them an option to try one more
time. There would not have been any guarantee of success, but in this case it worked.

Now, if what you're saying is true, logically speaking, every person that died (100's of thousands per year) in the UK from a cardiac arrest was never dead because they weren't treated with an ECMO machine."

You can bang on all you like but you're not going to browbeat me into changing what I wrote.  It's simple - if she were dead she wouldn't now be alive.  She was in a state that wasn't death - some call that near-death and I can go with that - it's close enough.

Do you see how illogical your position is ?  NO - it's not illogical to me so whose definition do we use?  That's why I said we have approaches each very different from that of the other?  I'm not trying to put you down but you seem intent on doing that to me.

Anyway as I've said, there's little point in me pleading with you to accept what I'm trying to explain to you. It puts a whole new slant on the famous 'Monty Python' dead parrot sketch....I guess you would argue that that parrot is not dead.... I'll leave the silliness to you - it's not my way.....

I'll leave the silliness to you

No, I'll leave it to you.

tim: Personally, I think there is some kind of subtle body, that's what many report but I can't begin to imagine how that works.
[quote pid='14026' dateline='1517153030']

Valmar: "There is definitely a subtle body ~ that's what leaves the body during OBEs. Our subtle body still isn't our Self or Soul, but just another body we inhabit, much like our physical one. The subtle body occupies the lighter astral density of this physical realm..."


The etheric is like a quasi-physical reality and all reality is an extension of your physical reality, a more refined extension of it, more flexible, more clay-like, more malleable.

Realize, first of all, that the body and the spirit are really simply different manifestations of the same energy. It is simply a projection of the soul [and by definition the Oversoul] in material form. Not that your soul has arms and legs, as it needs none; but it is a projection of an idea, projection of consciousness.

One of the qualities of consciousness is energy. When you 'die' you transform that energy into whatever you wish and, in the case of the NDE, we can use the etheric component (subtle body if you will) as a place to place that energy for continued learning in our physical expereince. Or we can use it to take a new point of view which is called the 'afterlife' (review).

I'll leave the silliness to you

No, I'll leave it to you.

Kinda ignored the rest, eh?

We appear to approach the subject of what constitutes death from understandings very different from each others.

Of course, would you not expect a polarity of viewpoints? Without them, where is the learning?

As you march along in your physical experience, you will run into more and more the existence of a pattern of ideas from several experience investigations and events. Physical/mental mediumship, OBE, others. If you toss out the NDE in your experience, as you most certainly have the right to do so, then you will have to toss out all of the other experiences and experiencers who will be pointing out the continuity of life.

Here's the good news. If you so choose that vibration, expect to find yourself, one day, on an Earth (physical reality) that matches. All the True Believers lol will be off doing their other thing and you will have the physical learning experience that you were 'incarnated to have' with the belief systems you have chose and those of like vibration too.

All(ah) is good.

Kinda ignored the rest, eh?

  Yeah, kinda...

tim: Personally, I think there is some kind of subtle body, that's what many report but I can't begin to imagine how that works.
[quote pid='14026' dateline='1517153030']

Valmar: "There is definitely a subtle body ~ that's what leaves the body during OBEs. Our subtle body still isn't our Self or Soul, but just another body we inhabit, much like our physical one. The subtle body occupies the lighter astral density of this physical realm..."


The etheric is like a quasi-physical reality and all reality is an extension of your physical reality, a more refined extension of it, more flexible, more clay-like, more malleable.

Realize, first of all, that the body and the spirit are really simply different manifestations of the same energy. It is simply a projection of the soul [and by definition the Oversoul] in material form. Not that your soul has arms and legs, as it needs none; but it is a projection of an idea, projection of consciousness.

One of the qualities of consciousness is energy. When you 'die' you transform that energy into whatever you wish and, in the case of the NDE, we can use the etheric component (subtle body if you will) as a place to place that energy for continued learning in our physical expereince. Or we can use it to take a new point of view which is called the 'afterlife' (review).

[/quote]

I know you don't need to bother with books to understand what's going on Pssst (with your 'connections' up there...! ) but I was re-reading 'Life after Life' recently and I was struck by how many of the people interviewed by Moody reported having some kind of "body" during their out of physical body experiences.
The reports haven't altered at all subsequently and yet Moody's collection of anecdotes was lambasted as an unrepresentative sample, absolutely not to be trusted. Prospective studies have shown he was right.