Commentary thread for tim's "NDE's" thread

It’s a bit moot really isn’t it? AFAICS there is no way to know if his funeral experience was simply him imaginging it or some glimpse of a possible future is there?

Not entirely moot.

As Tim mentioned there have been other precognitive visions, for example of future spouse or children, which do prove accurate. One might also include in this discussion those instances where the experiencer gets to see what the future life of his/her spouse or children would be like if he/she  chose not to return.

In my view, attempting to reduce the importance of such visions because they don't materialise is somewhat of a slippery slope.
What I mean is that we have to take the experience as a whole, rather than carve out the bits we are willing to accept.

I should also add that I meant my comment regarding a deterministic / non-deterministic worldview to be considered together with this whole, not as a philosophical aside.

Not entirely moot.

As Tim mentioned there have been other precognitive visions, for example of future spouse or children, which do prove accurate. One might also include in this discussion those instances where the experiencer gets to see what the future life of his/her spouse or children would be like if he/she  chose not to return.

In my view, attempting to reduce the importance of such visions because they don't materialise is somewhat of a slippery slope.
What I mean is that we have to take the experience as a whole, rather than carve out the bits we are willing to accept.

I should also add that I meant my comment regarding a deterministic / non-deterministic worldview to be considered together with this whole, not as a philosophical aside.

I certainly wouldn’t dismiss precognition however the quantitative difference between precognition and imagination seems to me, perhaps simplistically, to lie in the evidential content. That is, it’s only precognitive if it happens. If it doesn’t, there’s no way to know if it was precognition is there?

Is it not also possible that the NDE was a combination of actual OOB experience and imagination? On its own imho suggesting the funeral memory was precognition seems to be rather jumping the gun.

I certainly wouldn’t dismiss precognition however the quantitative difference between precognition and imagination seems to me, perhaps simplistically, to lie in the evidential content. That is, it’s only precognitive if it happens. If it doesn’t, there’s no way to know if it was precognition is there?

I had this same problem back when my focus was astral projection and inducing shared dreams. I'd always have to find out if it was real after the fact and unconfirmed ones had to exist in logical limbo. I thought that was dumb so developed a series of experiments to help me find ways to predict if not determine the reality of a projection from within the projection. Although not perfect, I was successful. It can be done.

I had this same problem back when my focus was astral projection and inducing shared dreams. I'd always have to find out if it was real after the fact and unconfirmed ones had to exist in logical limbo. I thought that was dumb so developed a series of experiments to help me find ways to predict if not determine the reality of a projection from within the projection. Although not perfect, I was successful. It can be done.

Care to share? 

Care to share? 

The idea behind the experiments was pretty simple. 

Do a whole bunch of projectios, 
find all the confirmed ones, 
figure out what's common with all of them and what's different from unconfirmed ones,
do more projections, 
guess which ones might be real or not based on what you found was common,
find confirmed ones to see how right you were,
repeat and refine.

From that I learned there's a bunch of things that seem common in real projections

Lack of control: much like real life, you can't just imagine things into or out of existence nor can you control what other people say. You are just another part of the environment.

Energy usage: Energy drains from the chest and/or head and goes... somewhere... upon successful connection. Energy is the most imporant part. If I don't have enough energy then it doesn't matter what I do, no projection will happen. The constant drain also limits total time I can stay in a projection and sudden drops of large chunks energy are highly correlated with memory loss.

Extra vividness: Everything tends to appear more vivid compared to what I'm capable of imagining even when purposefully trying to trick my senses via meditation. Often vividness will suddenly jump when a successful connection is made. It's not uncommon for me to see things at far greater resolutions than my physical eyes are capable of, complete with peripheral vision which I also physically don't have anymore. Extra interesting since I'm not even capable of "seeing" imagined or remembered images at that detail. Vividness can scale to the point where you will lose all awareness of he physical body and will become a completely immersive as if you are physically there. However the deeper I've gone, the stronger the kruger effect gets as well, so it's kinda a double edged sword.

Real people emit energy: Thanks to the more than a hundred shared dreams I've had or induced with Dreamsoap and a couple other people I've learned that you can feel if someone is real or just representation. If the people are real, then the projection is too. Whcih brought up an interesting conundrum. What happens if you're sharing a dream or projection with someone and there's a third person there who's also emitting energy who you have no ability to confirm with after the fact? Not jus because you don't know them and can't exchange info in the dream but because they are claming that they don't even live on the physical plane? Do you decide that person must not be real since you can't confirm it, thus ignoring all the correlation with people emitting energy being real? Or do you go with the data and admit that, even if you can't 100% prove it, they're probably real. Says nothing about anything they say though, just that they themselves probably exist as an individual.

Getting sucked into the projection: After a certain threshold, sometimes at connection and sometimes a little after, you will just start getting dragged in whether you like it or not. Sometimes you need to fight to stay in your body. This can go beyond projection to just straight up leaving your body.

This list is not perfect. There's extra caveats I've found that seem to have a lot to do with how time works. I've had some times where I thought I had everything right for a poltergeist, went and found something that completely matched what I distinctly remember doing. Only to find out later it was a hoax. Likewise I've had things that I thought were just my imagination turn out to be real. This is why it's not perfect. But its imperfection seems like it could be because of multiple timelines. It's possible that things that have all the right predictive characteristics do in fact happen... just not always here. It's possible that the hoax thing I remembered still happened somewhere else but the version here was done as a hoax. No way of knowing. Also shared expereinces can only be confirmed if both people remember them. Not remembering could be from anything from simply not remembering to it not being real to it not having happened for both people yet because time's a bitch which I detailed a bit here:

http://psiencequest.net/forums/thread-sh...plications

Dreamsoap and I once had a shared dream where I had my part first, woke up and told her about it because I was so certain it was shared only for her to tell me she didn't have that dream. A month later she tells me all excitedly about this dream she had that she thought I might've been in, and I pointed out to her that it's the dream that I'd tried telling her about a month ago that she forgot about. So I was right, it was shared, just not for her yet. Probably typos in here but too tired to proofread.

Thanks Mediochre. That’s really interesting. The way you’ve attempted to validate it sounds neat . As you suggest, not much is watertight in situations as you describe but it’s facinating how solutions come to us sometimes isn’t it?

Here is another German NDE. It's possible I may have made a mistake or two translating it but the general story will be fairly accurate I think.
Just to be clear, I'm not necessarily "recommending" any of these NDE's, I just think they are interesting enough to warrant some space here.

[...]

Thanks Tim! Your translation certainly beats the one from Google.

For the curious, the account of Dorothea Rau-Lembke can be found as a chapter in the book, Nah-Todeserfahrungen - Rückkehr zum Leben (Near-death experiences - Return to Life), and it has been reproduced in the original German here and here.

Google's English translation is here.

The interviewer (W.W.) is Wolfgang Weirauch.

Thanks Tim! Your translation certainly beats the one from Google.

For the curious, the account of Dorothea Rau-Lembke can be found as a chapter in the book, Nah-Todeserfahrungen - Rückkehr zum Leben (Near-death experiences - Return to Life), and it has been reproduced in the original German here and here.

Google's English translation is here.

The interviewer (W.W.) is Wolfgang Weirauch.

Thanks Tim! Your translation certainly beats the one from Google.

Let's hope so, Doug    I remember  something a while back about there being a shortage of ...or not many NDE's reported from Germany (might have been the former east)

We are not a great melting pot, a collective. We are individuals, and always have been and always will be, for infinity.

If one person on the other side of infinity knows the answer, then so do you, but we are not ‘all one.’

Each of us is unique. Without this uniqueness , there would not be any reason whatsoever for there being more than one being. Thus, each and every unique being, from our sentient race, to the slightest bug, is important. There is no regard, there, for what we consider physical reality.

https://angelicview.wordpress.com/2014/0...hing-else/