Becoming insecure over NDE Research

There have been various posts from a few different people ; mentioning something to the effect of NDE’s being way lower in frequency than it may seem. 

Combine that with Sam Parnia’s recent video that focuses on Jeff Longs 43 cherry picked NDE’s…

With the fact Parnia or related studies have not produced big numbers of NDE’s needed..

Remembering an old skeptiko episode where Alex called out PMH Atwater for fabricating research ..

And a few other things I forgot all of a sudden..

Maybe I’m just needing sleep .. but I feel like I’m doubting all sorts of stuff . What I thought more “solid” on.. not so much anymore .

Am I reading too much into things , accidentally cherry picking to validate my own anxiety ?? Or r we seeing some “holes” in some recent logic .. 

I don’t know ..

If you need a nice refresher ~ https://psi-encyclopedia.spr.ac.uk/artic...experience

There have been various posts from a few different people ; mentioning something to the effect of NDE’s being way lower in frequency than it may seem. 

Combine that with Sam Parnia’s recent video that focuses on Jeff Longs 43 cherry picked NDE’s…

With the fact Parnia or related studies have not produced big numbers of NDE’s needed..

Remembering an old skeptiko episode where Alex called out PMH Atwater for fabricating research ..

And a few other things I forgot all of a sudden..

Maybe I’m just needing sleep .. but I feel like I’m doubting all sorts of stuff . What I thought more “solid” on.. not so much anymore .

Am I reading too much into things , accidentally cherry picking to validate my own anxiety ?? Or r we seeing some “holes” in some recent logic .. 

I don’t know ..

I don't understand why people concentrate so much on NDE's, practically ignoring SDE's, which seem to be much stronger evidence of survival, given that they occur in perfectly lucid people. SDE's have been researched by Penny Sartori, Peter and Elisabeth Fenwick and Raymond Moody, among others.

There have been various posts from a few different people ; mentioning something to the effect of NDE’s being way lower in frequency than it may seem. 

Combine that with Sam Parnia’s recent video that focuses on Jeff Longs 43 cherry picked NDE’s…

With the fact Parnia or related studies have not produced big numbers of NDE’s needed..

Remembering an old skeptiko episode where Alex called out PMH Atwater for fabricating research ..

And a few other things I forgot all of a sudden..

Maybe I’m just needing sleep .. but I feel like I’m doubting all sorts of stuff . What I thought more “solid” on.. not so much anymore .

Am I reading too much into things , accidentally cherry picking to validate my own anxiety ?? Or r we seeing some “holes” in some recent logic .. 

I don’t know ..

Please don’t let anything I’ve posted in these forums make you doubt the reality of NDEs. They are absolutely real—even hardcore skeptics like Daniel Kondziella have acknowledged this. NDE researchers firmly believe in their reality. I recall an old interview with a young Sam Parnia from 1998, before he began his research, where he shared numerous NDE accounts he’d heard from patients he had resuscitated.

My thread, along with the referenced blog post from AwareOfAware, is primarily about frustration with Sam Parnia’s recent shift from a strictly scientific methodology to a more hypothesis-generating approach. Some of us were strong advocates of his strict scientific approach and feel disappointed by this transition (and wants the old Sam Parnia back).

My advice would be to take a break from it all for a bit, it's what I've done. Science is slow, painfully slow and NDE research which is incredibly sparse is especially slow. You can only read so much stuff before you're just rehashing old territory, and if you're reading the same stuff over and over again you're not doing it because you're interested it's become a self assurance obsession thing. I know it, I did it, it was a terrible time for me mentally and just taking a step back allowed me to come back and look at things both a lot more reasonably but also a lot more healthily. 

Also read different stuff. I took the time to read about end of life experiences a while ago, especially after my great grandma had one when I was taking care of her. Super interesting on their own, very insightful. NDEs are only such a standout cause it's hard to explain how someone experiences something when there's no reason they should, but there's heaps of other interesting stuff in the world. 

BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY, never be afraid to doubt. This info isn't solid, it's always changing and we shouldn't be afraid to doubt our own assumptions or change our ideas as new evidence comes. Never having doubts is the sign of a blind believer of psuedo-skeptic, it's just about figuring out whether or not those doubts are valid or the inherent skepticism that comes with any kind of belief.

There have been various posts from a few different people ; mentioning something to the effect of NDE’s being way lower in frequency than it may seem. 

Combine that with Sam Parnia’s recent video that focuses on Jeff Longs 43 cherry picked NDE’s…

With the fact Parnia or related studies have not produced big numbers of NDE’s needed..

Remembering an old skeptiko episode where Alex called out PMH Atwater for fabricating research ..

And a few other things I forgot all of a sudden..

Maybe I’m just needing sleep .. but I feel like I’m doubting all sorts of stuff . What I thought more “solid” on.. not so much anymore .

Am I reading too much into things , accidentally cherry picking to validate my own anxiety ?? Or r we seeing some “holes” in some recent logic .. 

I don’t know ..

I would just go back to the considerable amount of good basic evidence that has been slowly accumulated over the years for the reality of NDEs as true glimpses of the afterlife state detached from the body and brain. What you term "big numbers" of independently investigated and verified to be veridical cases have been in fact accumulated through long patient work. The very nature of the NDEs themselves frustratingly prevents their being strictly scientifically investigated - science requires duplicability by different investigators in different laboratories, instrumental measurements of the phenomena, etc., which requirements can't be met by an NDE paranormal phenomenon that occurs rarely and can't be predicted or controlled, and ethically can't be attempted to be artificially induced for investigation since it generally is in response to severe trauma such as cardiac arrest. Furthermore, the NDErs in the out of body state are hardly likely to be in the calm and curious to investigate mental state required to be motivated to examine and try to remember pictures and other unique information placed in inaccessable locations near the ceilings of emergency rooms (one common method of trying to gather scientifically acceptable empirical veridical evidence that the reported out-of-body state really happened).

"Scientific " research into NDEs has generally been limited to such difficult low-probability methods, including after-the fact attempts to verify by investigation by independent researchers other statements made by returned NDErs such as reports of communication with deceased loved ones who sometimes were not known to be dead by the NDEr, and reports by observers elsewhere on the Earth of being contacted by the then out-of-body NDEr.

It is true that "scientific" research and investigation into NDEs is very difficult, but that fact does not in any way constitute evidence that they are merely hallucinations of a dying brain and caused by oxygen deprivation or anaesthetics or unusual biochemical neurological states of the brain while it is gliding into a death spiral. In fact virtually all of these materialist neurological so-called "explanations" come up by materialist skeptics over the years have been shown to be false. These experiences can't be explained through the prevailing theory and methodology of science. 

So, the accumulated evidence is that though shown to be rarely occuring in the population, and being very hard to scientifically investigate, these materialist paradigm-breaking events have been confirmed to be real. 

From another standpoint, all it takes is to carefully and unbiasedly study the well-known compilation of about 125 independently investigated and confirmed to be veridical NDE OBEs published in the latest edition of the volume The Self Does Not Die, to admit to the high probability of the reality of this paranormal phenomenon. For instance, what is the chance that every single one of these 125 investigated and found to be veridical accounts is really due to fraud or brain malfunctional hallucinations that just happened by chance to be falsely veridical on later investigation? Extremely unlikely - because in fact even one lone completely unexplained case would be sufficient evidence of the reality of the phenomenon.

Doubt seems a perfectly reasonable mindset albeit somewhat uncomfortable at times. In the  absence of categorical proof either way, it a good spur to learning more.

Maybe the question of NDEs and SDEs and STEs (shared death, spiritually transformative) and so on revolves around what problem it is that one is trying to solve or gain clarity on.

If it's a need for understanding what happens when we die, that's one thing, and it can also be investigated by consideration of past-life studies and mediumship research. It isn't just NDEs.

However, just to add a personal angle on these things, I've long been much more interested in what happens when we live, not when we die. The Myth of Sisyphus and philosophical musings in that direction posed questions about living, though perhaps in contrast to not-living. It took me a long time to work my way through those issues, though it was years ago now when those things were my main concern. Nevertheless, NDEs do shed some further light on living, not dying. What is it that matters in life? Dwelling on a speculative future existence is not, for me, the main purpose of this life. But returnees from NDE journeys often have a renewed focus on how to live. What comes next can take care of itself.

First of all, thank you to everyone who has responded so far . Very thought provoking responses , helping with the Additional ways of thinking about things , helping me see things differently, and I feel the support , so thank you.

For me , I have been lucky enough or blessed enough to have some really special family members and loved ones who mean everything to me . Imagining never seeing them again or that life has no real deeper purpose ; is terrifyingly horrific to me . So I ruminate and obsessively read and listen and engage with all I can on tbis topic, and all the other mentioned ones too, mediumship, past lives , death bed visions , every topic covered on these forums . 

But until I find something that convinces me or it’s been proven scientifically or something , I’ll always obsessively doubt or something .

Despite my intellect knowing or believing the evidence supports survival… “feeling-wise,” I still doubt, worry, etc.

For me , I have been lucky enough or blessed enough to have some really special family members and loved ones who mean everything to me . Imagining never seeing them again or that life has no real deeper purpose ; is terrifyingly horrific to me . So I ruminate and obsessively read and listen and engage with all I can on tbis topic, and all the other mentioned ones too, mediumship, past lives , death bed visions , every topic covered on these forums . 

But until I find something that convinces me or it’s been proven scientifically or something , I’ll always obsessively doubt or something .

Despite my intellect knowing or believing the evidence supports survival… “feeling-wise,” I still doubt, worry, etc.

If the terror of death affects you in your day to day life and you find yourself obsessively reading about paranormal stuff to aleviate those feelings, I would STRONGLY recommend trying to see a therapist about it. 

Back when I was just absolutely gorging myself of NDE content I thought here I was doing the right thing, I was trying to find out about what might come after and being reasonable about the topic. Only to find out later that the reason why I was so obsessed was because of an underlying, untreated, mental condition. Imagine my face when I found out the way I was thinking, the way I thought was normal and was the RIGHT thing to do, was actually not normal and was actively hurting me. That I didn't have to feel the way I did, that I didn't have to be as afraid of the unknown as I was and I could instead live happily and somewhat free of anxiety. I haven't had any professional treatment for the condition, no medication or the like, just light advice from my doctor which has very much improved my standard of living. I'm not saying you're in the same boat, but if it's a serious hassle for you maybe go see someone. 

And 100% agreement on what Typoz says as well, NDEs, end of life experiences and the like are so much more about life then death, life is the focus not the other way around. When my great grandmother who me and my wife were taking care of had her end of life experiences and was there on her deathbed the afterlife never once came up, it was all about reminiscing, being honest with each other and the people who she saw just being there to keep her company. It's an easy thing to just say "just focus on life", but related to what I said up there once I realized my obsession with death wasn't normal it went a long way into making my life better. 

Another funny way to look at it would be this: I don't think Bruce Greyson or someone like Julie Bieschel who works with mediums spend all their time worrying about the afterlife like we do, despite being infinitely more exposed to the phenomena.