Another demonstration of chatGPT 4.0 capabilities

Consciousness cannot be objectively understood by any measure, because consciousness has no objective qualities.

That's exactly why you can't make any logical proofs about it's relationsship to the physical "reality"

That's exactly why you can't make any logical proofs about it's relationsship to the physical "reality"

Ah, but we can. We're using consciousness to make these logical proofs about consciousness and its relationship or lack thereof to physical reality.

Everything is done via the medium of consciousness... even the denial of consciousness.

Matter isn't actually really "objective", anyways, because it perceived entirely through the subjective lens.

Any shared observations about matter must therefore be inter-subjective in nature. No-one has ever observed anything that is actually "objective", because nothing can ever be abstracted away from personal subjective observations, as much as they would like to.

Matter isn't actually really "objective", anyways, because it perceived entirely through the subjective …

You are out of your depths now Valmar 😀 QM does not imply this. It’s just a possible interpretation of Heisenbergs uncertainty principle. I know this idea is popular in new age circles but it’s purely within metaphysical musings (like your other arguments)

You are out of your depths now Valmar 😀 QM does not imply this. It’s just a possible interpretation of Heisenbergs uncertainty principle. I know this idea is popular in new age circles but it’s purely within metaphysical musings (like your other arguments)

I'm not really sure what you're rambling on about here.

You even ignored my followup paragraph...

[Laird]

I think I understand it well enough. Both arguments basically states “because I’m consciousness” => B

Nope. You probably don't get premise one (as I've framed the argument) and how it's justified.

Problem is that because we can’t objectively define what it means to be consciousness you can’t reason like that.

This is just silly. You're using the word conscious[ness] as though you know what it means and as though you assume others do too.

Perhaps we should simply assume that your claim that started this exchange is false or even meaningless because you "can't objectively define what it means to be conscious":

It’s an unproven assumption that consciousness isn’t an epiphenomenon entirely dependent on chemical and physical processes.

Anyhow, this exchange has become pointless. I'll leave it there.

You are out of your depths now Valmar 😀 QM does not imply this. It’s just a possible interpretation of Heisenbergs uncertainty principle. I know this idea is popular in new age circles but it’s purely within metaphysical musings (like your other arguments)

He's not really talking about QM AFAICTell?

He's not really talking about QM AFAICTell?

I think he apriori assumes consciousness to be non-physical. Obviously more or less everything you want to believe follows.

Nope. You probably don't get premise one (as I've framed the argument) and how it's justified.

Ok I admit premise one in the argument is pretty good. But Titus Rivas is also a very good philosopher.

I think he apriori assumes consciousness to be non-physical. Obviously more or less everything you want to believe follows.

What does that have to do with Quantum Mechanics...?

I think he apriori assumes consciousness to be non-physical. Obviously more or less everything you want to believe follows.

Well that makes sense as the null hypothesis, as per Valmar's point anything we claim to be nonphysical is apprehended through consciousness and then possibly measured by mathematics which is also mentally based.

I don't see how realizing this truth means "more or less everything you want to believe follows". If anything if it's possible Something comes from Nothing, which the Materialist/Physicalist faith thinks happens with consciousness coming from non-conscious matter, then anything could happen.

Which seems to by why people believe a Turing Machine can become self-aware when it runs particular programs and then stop being conscious when it stops running those programs...or something like that...I've long ceased trying to apply logic to the bizarre beliefs of adherents to the Materialist faith...