A major but biased new paper on consciousness

I don't have time to go into this right now, but I might try to bring out a few key points when I do.

In response to where I get my data....

I don't have time to go into this right now, but I might try to bring out a few key points when I do.

Back at you...

Psychics, remote viewing, OOBE, AP, dreams, Sean Harribance could all tell you what went on in surgery, sometimes before the surgery, sometimes after the surgery. This desire to force NDE data to be different, and then theorizing why, in my humble opinion, is a mistake. There are no earthly time / space factors in many psi phenomena.

You make these statements, Durward, psychic medium sean Harribance can do this and that. Well, maybe he can and maybe he can't (I'll bet he can't do it to order--without a functioning brain) but that doesn't affect what we're talking about here. 

There is no desire or need to force anything with respect to the phenomenon of NDE's at all. These are simply the honest reports of millions of people all over the world who have experienced consciousness without a functioning brain. And they have to be addressed by science (at least the ones I'm interested in) 

According to physicalism, you cannot have any experience without a functioning brain. If you do/can, then by logical deduction there must be something else going on extra to the brain which we then can theorise about but never be sure what is going on. Well not yet, anyway, maybe in the future, who knows.  

Remote viewers (which I accept as a real phenomenon) have a functioning brain. So do psychic mediums and lucid dreamers. Patients in cardiac arrest do not. So all these extrasensory perceptual powers (RV, mediumistic, OOBE's using various techniques, whatever) can be eliminated as explanations for veridical OBE/NDE's during cardiac arrest. 

This is the crux of the matter. This is what all the fuss is about and this is why idealogically driven pseudo sceptics spend so much time and effort trying to undermine (debunk) the cases that we do have.

This is an altered state, so why is it suddenly exempt from being just like every other version of information supply across the Psi phenomena range? 
Because people wish for it to be something different or special. So go ahead and wish away, that always blocks sicence.

It's exempt because it isn't an altered state. The person in cardiac arrest is clinically dead. No altered state about it in the sense that you are referring to and said persons should absolutely not be able to see what is going on around them. Yet they can.

Of course, if you really want to be slippery, I suppose you could invoke super-psi, an unfalsifiable, all encompassing magical ability, bestowed on dead patients by those who don't like the idea of a separate mind or a consciousness independent of brain function (a 'soul' I guess we're talking about)

If this is the point of the NDE, wonderful. I'm not a skeptic of the occurance of this altered state, or the results of that altered state, or what people can do during this altered state.

But most of the NDE people are into battering and beating anyone down who doesn't see it exactly like they do, and like to jump up and claim that it is proof of more than it is, while screaming and foaming at the mouth.

I have explained before that I have been functional in multiple consciousness situations at the same time, in other people's dreams, and more.
And most of you think I don't have a functional brain as it is. Come on, laugh, it was funny.

We can again take so many different psi phenomena and show how this is in agreement with how they might function, how they are independent of the human condition.

I don't see any issues here.

As I've said, cardiac arrest is not an altered state so your proposals can't apply.

It just blows my mind to see it turned into this hyper religious thing people need to fight over.

We never talk about religion on here in that respect , Durward. This is a science forum that accepts the evidence for PSI (the paranormal).

As I've said, cardiac arrest is not an altered state so your proposals can't apply.

Wow, ok, never mind then. I'm not sure why I'm the bad guy again, or that you make me out to be some kind of stupid skeptic just for the sake of bullying your truth (or lack of, since you say some things that tell me you have no clue about psi phenomena or altered states).

You don't seem to comprehend what I said. I could get nasty about that.
You seem to like to twist what I said into something it is not. I could get nasty about that.

I think it is likely because you just don't care to even try to comprehend what it is that I said.
It doesn't align with your argument, and you can't see where we align, and what it is we are even debating.

You are nitpicking, bullying, and badgering me with things I don't even disagree with, yet twisting it to make it sound like I do.

Another condition of the mind I see daily: blocking anything and everything that upsets what you want it to be while bullying people with nonsense that doesn't even apply, just so you can be right. So throwing crap at me and trying to make it stick, when that is not who I am, how I think, or anything of the sort. Nice try, I've seen this in kindergarten.

Example: Cardiac arrest is not an altered state... perfect, I agree, and not what I said.
Many things can be the source of altered states. Cardiac arrest and dying being one of the TRIGGERS for altered state experiences. How's that?

I can see you won't ever even try to see what an altered state is, much less what can lead to an altered state, much less how similar many altered states are.

Most of us who do experience altered states have continued to tell everyone how disassociated and quantum they are in nature. That falls on deaf ears, constantly.

You should look at terminal lucidity involving cases where it should be impossible for people to communicate due to advanced brain cancers and other extreme damage, but they do. The brain shouldn't even be capable of anything.

I have never said that this phenomena isn't possible. I have no problem with NDE data or evidence.
I have problems with people taking it out of context and ignoring or dismissing what altered states are, can do, and that an altered state is the NDE experience. I have stated that a different understanding of altered states is my humble opinion, and my humble experience.

Have you had ANY? 

Whether or not the brain is alive or dead and whether or not this is where things happen or don't happen is not even the debate at this point, it is just trashing me and whatever I say, no matter what I say.

Again, trashing other people, bullying, just being monsters, these are the main themes of this forum since I got here.
I call it the Psi mental illness phenomena.

We never talk about religion on here in that respect , Durward. This is a science forum that accepts the evidence for PSI (the paranormal).

ROTFLMAO... start acting like it then. Critical thinking dude. I'm not your punching bag for the day, so just stop.

[Ninshub]

"bullying, monsters". I see that a lot in your comments, Durward.

I'm not seeing that at all, and I know others aren't either. On the one hand, you recognize yourself as being "hypersensitive" (which is OK and totally understandable), but then you don't seem to be taking a step back and wondering if your recognized hypersensitivity is making you filter the members' responses this way.

I'm aware as I'm writing this that you could view this comment of mine itself as an attack or "insulting". It's not meant to be; it's an observation to see if you can take a step back so we can step out of this dynamic or make it evolve. I know on my part, and I'm sure others like Laird, we've been careful in how we frame things to de-escalate that dynamic.

As I've said, cardiac arrest is not an altered state so your proposals can't apply.

Where the F&(k did that come up from? 

What is your personal problem?

You make these statements, Durward, psychic medium sean Harribance can do this and that. Well, maybe he can and maybe he can't (I'll bet he can't do it to order--without a functioning brain) but that doesn't affect what we're talking about here. 

How dare you insert your bets and maybe he can or can't without doing your homework.

You are just being a rotten turd here, and a bully, and have no clue what you are talking about.

"bullying, monsters". I see that a lot in your comments, Durward.

I'm not seeing that at all, and I know others aren't either. On the one hand, you recognize yourself as being "hypersensitive" (which is OK and totally understandable), but then you don't seem to be taking a step back and wondering if your recognized hypersensitivity is making you filter the members' responses this way.

I'm aware as I'm writing this that you could view this comment of mine itself as an attack or "insulting". It's not meant to be; it's an observation to see if you can take a step back so we can step out of this dynamic or make it evolve. I know on my part, and I'm sure others like Laird, we've been careful in how we frame things to de-escalate that dynamic.

So just roll over and let obvious bullying and insults go? Isn't that the problem society is having at this moment? Letting bullies run over people and insult everyone and just let them because they are somehow entitled and allowed to do that?

Might be your way, but if you don't see it, something is wrong with you.

Now I have to start clipping and quoting and pasting these insults? WTF?

Never mind. We are done. I'm not going to be the punching bag for some uninformed bully to think he is outwitting me by insults, degrading, and obvious ignorance of Psi phenomena, on a psi form.