"Why I am no longer a skeptic"

You haven't shown Parnia's statement to be inaccurate. You've presented one paper on pigs and one other paper which doesn't look that impressive to me. 

I'm not sure that you really understand what was presented in the second paper. An infrared pupillometer was used to detect pupillary light response in cardiac arrest patients receiving CPR. That is cut and dried. The paper wasn't discussing whether or not pupillary light reflex existed or not. They were measuring it.

Why would the paper have to be "impressive?" Are you saying the results may be in doubt in some way?

In 25 patients (83%) the pupillary light reflex was detectable throughout or during a part of the resuscitation.

About the instrument used:

NPi-100 Pupillometer uses infrared imaging technology to measure the pupil’s response to light stimulus, removing subjectivity and variability in the measurement of pupil size and the pupillary light reflex. Results are displayed on an LCD screen—providing a numeric indication of whether the pupillary response falls within or outside a normal range as defined by the NeurOptics NPi™ (Neurological Pupil index™) algorithm and enabling trending of pupillary information.

The conclusion being that some changes in pupil width occur when some blood is forced back into the brain with CPR ? Just because there might have been some changes in the reflex (in those studies) doesn't mean that the reflexes have been restored.

What? 

So they have the body reflex of pupillary response to light, but the reflex "hasn't been restored?" I'm not sure what that means.

They are measuring the reflexive response during CPR. Probably some of the patients lived and some died. They were measuring it during cardiac arrest and CPR.

And even if they are restored, it doesn't mean that the patient automatically regains consciousness.

I said earlier I'm not stating anything about consciousness. I'm trying to clarify the fact that pupillary light reflex occurs during CPR.

I always try to be accurate when posting anything. You however are all the place depending on how you're feeling that day, or at least it seems that way to me with your odd behaviour.

I'm glad that you strive to be accurate. I think it is really important that when people present facts on this forum especially, that they be as accurate as possible. Having people argue endlessly and disregard actual facts would undercut the overall credibility of psi-quest. We need to be able to look past our preconceptions about how we want things to be and look at facts.

FACT: Pupillary light reflex was detectable throughout or during a part of the resuscitation of [SOME] cardiac arrest patients. 

I think you must have got somewhat agitated, Chuck. There's a lot of posts there. I'll be back tomorrow to do my best to answer them. Until then take a chill pill.

No problem. You've probably run out of quips about how odd my behavior is. Refuel.

Why I'm Not a Skeptic | Michael Prescott

http://michaelprescott.freeservers.com/w...eptic.html

Addendum: See also his criticisms of the Randi Prize

There are legitimate grounds on which to criticize the Bond essay I started with, and grounds to criticize Prescott's. While I appreciate his disclaimer about not falling into the over-simplification trap, his efforts to pin the Terror, and fascist atrocities, on rationalism are very much over-simplifications. The Nazis may have had their eugenics enthusiasts, but they also traded heavily on heavily mythologized notions of Germanic identity steeped in Romanticism, and Himmler had his nose deep into the occult.

Conversely, I think Prescott still gives the skeptics he's talking about too much credit re. the Dark Ages, a term I believe many historians wish would just die already.

Another study that indicates pupilary reflex during CPR, this time in humans.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/art...7212002638

Abstract
Background
The presence or absence of the pupillary light reflex following cardiopulmonary resuscitation has been shown to have prognostic value. We asked whether the light reflex could be objectively measured during cardiopulmonary resuscitation in humans and whether the quality of the reflex was associated with outcome.
Methods
Sixty-seven in-hospital code blue alerts were attended of which 30 met our inclusion criteria. Portable infrared pupillometry was used to measure the light reflex during each code. The reliability of the presence of the light reflex during each code as a predictor of survival and neurological outcome was analyzed statistically using the Barnard's Exact test.
Results
In 25 patients (83%) the pupillary light reflex was detectable throughout or during a part of the resuscitation. Continuous presence of the light reflex or absence for less than 5 min during resuscitation was associated with early survival of the code and a good neurological outcome. In contrast, no patients without a light reflex or with a gradually deteriorating light reflex survived the code and absence of a pupillary light reflex for more than 5 min was associated with an unfavorable outcome.
Conclusion
Portable infrared pupillary measurements can reliably demonstrate the presence and quality of the pupillary light reflex after cardiac arrest and during resuscitation. In our limited case series, the presence of the pupillary light reflexes obtained in serial measurements during resuscitation was associated with early survival and a favorable neurological status in the recovery period.

Keywords
Cardiopulmonary resuscitation
Pupillary light reflex
Outcome
Pupillometry

Chuck's paper > "In 25 patients (83%) the pupillary light reflex was detectable throughout or during a part of the resuscitation."

http://www.glasgowcomascale.org/

Parnia said  >Performing cardiopulmonary resuscitation (CPR) does send some blood to the brain — about 15 percent of what it requires to function normally, according to Parnia. This is enough to slow the brain cells' death trajectory, but it isn't enough to kick-start the brain into working again, which is why reflexes don't resume during CPR, he said.

Chuck said > post 366.

"I don't see reflexes mentioned in that quote you have provided."

I'm not making a statement about the pupillary dilation of denture man.

I'm not making a statement that people have or do not have any clinical signs of "consciousness" during CPR.

You stated "which is why reflexes don't resume during CPR" and that is clearly incorrect. Fact. Not opinion.

I think we need to be accurate when discussing these issues.

Parnia > "which is why reflexes don't resume during CPR"

There are many reflexes by which doctors determine the level of consciousness or brain activity. If you watch the video above you will see a demonstration of how reflexes are tested. That is in coma patients. Cardiac arrest is far more serious. Parnia is more than likely also referring to the motor reflexes you can see being demonstrated in the last window. if you watch paramedics and doctors working on patients you can see them testing these things.

Therefore, I don't think the papers you produced refute Parnia's statement at all. I think you're just being  an awkward sod, Chuck as usual.

I'd prefer to have a discussion where you don't need to refer to me as odd, agitated or awkward. But if that isn't possible, then please continue with that nonsense if you feel it is necessary.

I'm perfectly fine with your conclusion. I think it would be better if Parnia referred to a specific reflex. The pupillary reflex would seem to be a key indicator. In fact, that is the point of this stream of research--they are finding that greater response of pupillary reflex during resuscitation may be an indicator that the patient has a greater chance of recovery.

Also, it does show that at least some brain activity is occurring for some folks in cardiac arrest during resuscitation.

I'd prefer to have a discussion where you don't need to refer to me as odd, agitated or awkward. But if that isn't possible, then please continue with that nonsense if you feel it is necessary.

I'm perfectly fine with your conclusion. I think it would be better if Parnia referred to a specific reflex. The pupillary reflex would seem to be a key indicator. In fact, that is the point of this stream of research--they are finding that greater response of pupillary reflex during resuscitation may be an indicator that the patient has a greater chance of recovery.

Also, it does show that at least some brain activity is occurring for some folks in cardiac arrest during resuscitation.

"I'd prefer to have a discussion where you don't need to refer to me as odd, agitated or awkward. But if that isn't possible, then please continue with that nonsense if you feel it is necessary."

Your behaviour is odd in my opinion, Chuck....telling me I'm on ignore in a strop...and then 2 days later asking me to back up something I posted. Why is that nonsense ?

"I'm perfectly fine with your conclusion. I think it would be better if Parnia referred to a specific reflex. The pupillary reflex would seem to be a key indicator. In fact, that is the point of this stream of research--they are finding that greater response of pupillary reflex during resuscitation may be an indicator that the patient has a greater chance of recovery."

That's because they were able to get more blood up into the brain in some patients than others and that helped to keep the brain cells viable for longer. Penny Sartori's patient 10's pupils were reacting to light (partially) but he was in a coma with the lowest Glasgow score (3). Reacting to light doesn't mean they were in any way conscious (apparently)

https://www.researchgate.net/publication...ed_Healing