The Chilling

I just finished listening to this excellent podcast about a real and rather severe haunting in Kent, Ohio involving what many of its experiencers describe as a demon. And honestly I can't really blame them, I think anyone would probably say the same if it happened to them. It was very intriguing to listen to given my own experiences that at least some of the older members of the forum probably know about given I don't really post much anymore let alone write up my experiences like I used to. Sort of a shame given how many are left unwritten at this point. It was weird hearing some of the same tactics and phenomena from someone else, though it appeared that their entity had different goals than what I often experienced, or perhaps not, hard to tell. Its different abilities, strengths and weaknesses lending themselves better to different tactics. if there's a moral to the story its that people are stronger than they think, they only need to see that in themselves.

In any case, I highly recommend listening to it, there's interview snippets with a few people we all recognize such as Loyd Aurbach as part of it, she really did her due diligence and that's very great to see. Here's the website:

The Chilling

I decided, hopefully not against my better judgement, to email her and mention that I've had some similar things, linking to Tghe Mothers Day Incident from this forum since its teh most similar type of thing that I've actually written up. I would say hers got a lot more physical in some ways than mine did. But at the same time, you could argue the opposite. I wonder how many other stories like hers there are out there, I'm willing to bet its more than we'd think. In any case, she may or may not end up taking a look at this forum, so maybe this thread can be a good place to either welcome, acknowledge, or otherwise say hello to her. If you've listened to the podcast, leave your thoughts as well.

[Ninshub]

Which episode is it?

Which episode is it?

It's the whole podcast, 13 episodes plus an epilogue. the podcast is the story of her and her roomates, and others, living in that house and what happened.

[Ninshub]

Do you have your own take on what those sorts of entities are, Mediochre?

I have to admit I'm kind of partial to RJ Spina's experience/understanding of them as parasitic astral thoughtforms, instead of self-powered "demons".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqHBffadl2E

[Ninshub]

It's the whole podcast, 13 episodes plus an epilogue. the podcast is the story of her and her roomates, and others, living in that house and what happened.

I noticed I get error messages when trying to listen to episodes except the epilogue on that website page, but that they're available on spotify.
https://open.spotify.com/episode/3rTxMK4HksZ9S6tL8aIFCz

Do you have your own take on what those sorts of entities are, Mediochre?

I have to admit I'm kind of partial to RJ Spina's experience/understanding of them as parasitic astral thoughtforms, instead of self-powered "demons".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqHBffadl2E

Firstly I personally don't trust anything Spina says, I initially posted a thread about him but he subsequently went on what were basically incoherent contradictory hippy ramblings about things he himself seems absolutely certain of yet were sometimes logically contradictory or easily disprovable with evidence. He was like a typical dogmatic new ager and I honestly think he's probably at least partially delusional. Some of the logical and evidential contradictions he makes are catalogued in some of the comment sections unless Mishlove decided to delete them feeling they were perhaps "too mean". Spina, if you were unaware, is the entire reason why that channel has the policy it does now of not posting negative comments, because sooooooooooo many people had a lot of issues with what he said for good reason.

I tend to lean more towards Loyd Aurebach's metaphor of likening such entities to great white sharks, you wouldn't call them evil, but you also probably don't want to run into them either. That seems to fit a good chunk of what I ran into, I did my own categorization based on behavbiour, some seemed to behave like scavengers and opportunists who would leave you alone if they felt you were a danger but would swarm around you if they sensed or believed you were weak. Others were much like what Lindsey ran into, focused on slowly draining energy from one or more targets to feed and/or empower itself. I do think the comparison to a spider is very accurate. Others were like the Spindler I encountered in the mothers day incident, predators that seemed interested in actually killing and presumably eating prey whether using ambush or brute force tactics or a mix of both.

I will admit that I do agree that there seemed to be a class of thing I encountered that seemed to be just a thoughtform type of thing. Seeming to take the shape of generically scary things like giant spiders and whatnot, those things behaved as though they were robots though, demonstrating no survival instinct and also being incredibly weak, almost like their appearance was more like a hollow 3d model that had nothing inside it, or a balloon. these were things that you could very easily deal with with just raw intention whether it be prayers or whatever, they couldn't take any fluctuations of energy like that. Ironically those were the only things I was willing to call demons personally, because they were the only things that acted without intelligence, with a single minded relentless focus much like how demons were described, everything else demonstrated intelligence of some form, some to higher degrees than others.

Some things, like one class of entity that I nicknamed "stalkers" felt as though they were actually human. Stalkers were of the opportunistic category, they had a tendency in projections and similar to appear as someone you knew and liked, they'd try to get close to you for a hug or similar, at which point they'd shriek or roar in your face and transform into something almost zombie like. As I recall, In the podcast Lindsey describes entities in various peoples dreams who have cracked faces that look almost like burnt marshmallows after they, well, molted. I found that description relatable to what I remember for some of the stalkers. The shriek seemed to be almost protective since it seemed they weren't able to move very much during their transformation, so it seemed like they were almost trying to flashbang you to shock you so that you wouldn't resist in time. They also seemed capable of some matter interaction and thus could be poltergeists of a sort.

Some things would respond to what I'll call the jamming effect that seemed to occur from the intentions behind prayers or intentional smudging/sage burning etc. Not typically outright destroying them as in the case of the potential thoughtforms, but disrupting their ability to hold onto you or keep you in a dream/OBE and similar. I think its the reason why many people believe that, when prayer works in these situations, that it proves their religion right, when in actually the intention behind the prayer seems to be what's required. Loyd has talked about this in a few interviews as I recall, that he'd get calls from people wondering why their smudging doesn't work, and he'd ask what were they thinking while smudging, and its always the people who are just going through the motions with no intention that have the issues. Likewise with prayer where you're just saying the words to say them with no real feeling behind it. There's lots and lots of evidence that its the intention and little else that matters across parapsychology.

Then there's entities that won't suffer any disruption from anything like that, they will basically just laugh at you for thinking it would work. For them you need to get a whole lot more aggressive and physical. You, or someone, needs to actually fight them, they aren't going away any other way. You might think that this is the time where you call for help from angels or other entities, but at least with some of the people who used to attack me, they have protocols for that too. Namely what used to happen with me is they'd pull me into a projection/OBE, they'd lock it down so I could not leave and they'd also lock down the area we were in with what could be considered a sort of isolation field. This made it difficult for anything to sense you let alone hear you, let alone find where you even were if they could. Thus forcing you into a fight with no backup, the field weakening and dropping if you kill or otherwise severely injure and incapacitate whatever's maintaining the field. Its why I have my policy of never bothering calling for help though I admit that people really should if for some insane reason they're in that situation, because there are pretty competent people out there who are more than willing to help.

I won't claim to know everything about this or that I'm right in my interpretations as that would get very strongly into blind man and the elephant territory. But it really seemed that reducing it to good and evil would be a massive oversimplification. Some things acted animalistically, other things acted as if part of an organization with an agenda, some were more "human" than others in appearance and mannerisms, the more normal ones honestly were often the worst and most powerful. Its a whole quagmire of things that I know I don't have a full picture of.

[Ninshub]

Thanks for that breakdown or taxonomy!

Putting aside Spina's credentials, I do think the entities you describe here sort of equate to what he describes in that clips as entities that don't have their own power and need to feed on that of others.

Others were much like what Lindsey ran into, focused on slowly draining energy from one or more targets to feed and/or empower itself. I do think the comparison to a spider is very accurate.

Thanks for that breakdown or taxonomy!

Putting aside Spina's credentials, I do think the entities you describe here sort of equate to what he describes in that clips as entities that don't have their own power and need to feed on that of others.

Not necessarily, back in the day when my own friends were a whole lot more prone to show up as apparitions and stuff they explained that, due to their "distance" from the physical world the energy requirements for any degree of interaction let alone materialization grew exponentially the further away you were. However since I was already down here, my energy was already in phase with the physical world, and thus they could use me much like a voltage transformer to bump their energy down as to become more physical. They referred to this as being a "conduit". These days I can look back and realize that what they were describing was the process of physical mediumship, or at least one of them. Likewise other entites could do this as well but more maliciously, not because they needed your energy to survive, but because it was a more efficient way for them to have an effect on teh physical world. This process could feel draining but not necessarily depending how much energy was being siphoned and how healthy you were and bunch of other factors.

Likewise when Teal and I were still doing trials with her trying to pull me out of my body and me trying to figure out how not to go back I ran into this same problem. With my physical body seemingly powering my spirit body rather than the other way around. At least if I wanted to stay in certain areas like down here with ability to phase in physically with my spirit body. There seemed to be potential to create a closed looop of energy within my spirit body so that I could leave and be self sustaining indefintely, however I was never able to achieve this, Admittedly death might actually do that because it felt as though the problem was the tether back to my body during OBE's. A solution would've been to attach to another source of energy to mimic the tether I had with my body and also keep my energy filled but that wasn't what I wanted.

I suspected that stalkers were in this camp somehow, as if they were human souls who'd died but didn't understand that they'd died, or believeed they'd die again due to this energy drain when in reality all that would happen is that they'd either move on or reincarnate or something. But instead they would desperately go around feeding off anyone they could to keep themselves alive until basically that's all they knew. Either that or it was like some parts of them had dissolved away and other parts remained that acted in this more animnalistic way. I honestly have no idea but that's sometimes what it seemed like based on their behaviour.

I once got visited by my dead grandma, accompanied by what people would probably call an angel though that's not how she introduced herself to me. I will refrain from using the word she used since, well, its an organization I was familiar with, at least that's how she presented herself, whether that was literally true or just a presentation for my sake I don't know, it could be either really but functionally she was an angel. Anyways, after my grandma gave me a hug and told me all excitedly that she'd gotten to meet god and all that this blonde lady in blue robes explained to me that normally my grandma would've reincarnated by now, that the normal process for her would've been that she would've slowy drained of energy, not being fully compatible with their realm, and that when she got low enough she'd shoot back down here. However, she'd gotten herself involved in the maintenance and supervision of some stuff up there and she was doing a pretty good job at it, so they didn't want to lose her. Thus this "angel" was assigned to her to act as a reactor, constantly keeping her energy filled so that she wouldn't leave.

The point is, it seems more complicated than that.

[Ninshub]

I started listening to this series and it's quite good and well made.

Just on the Spina topic, though, and hopefully this doesn't derail this thread.

When you wrote this...

Firstly I personally don't trust anything Spina says, I initially posted a thread about him but he subsequently went on what were basically incoherent contradictory hippy ramblings about things he himself seems absolutely certain of yet were sometimes logically contradictory or easily disprovable with evidence. He was like a typical dogmatic new ager and I honestly think he's probably at least partially delusional. Some of the logical and evidential contradictions he makes are catalogued in some of the comment sections unless Mishlove decided to delete them feeling they were perhaps "too mean". Spina, if you were unaware, is the entire reason why that channel has the policy it does now of not posting negative comments, because sooooooooooo many people had a lot of issues with what he said for good reason.

... I was curious if you had or remembered any of the contradictory statements he's made?

I'm interested because very personally I've listened to a lot of his interviews and I largely don't have any problem with anything he's saying, nor with his manner (it feels like confidence to me, as opposed to delusional arrogance - and if someone, like him, has accessed all these realities through altered states of consciousness, since a child or whatever, of course he's going to present it as "this is what I know to be true that I've experienced myself", not "this is a theory that could be falsified"), as it seems to corroborate a lot of other information from channels, etc. (And maybe the problem is I'm a rambling hippy myself!  )

I noticed there's a Mishlove-Spina youtube thread (a live stream one) that still has all the comments on and from what I can see they're pretty much all positive, so I know I'm not completely alone here. I started listening to it and one of the early questions they take on from a listener addresses the fact that a lot of what he's bringing forth isn't new and is part of what Mishlove calls "the perennial philosophy". As, again, I'm largely on board with the PP, of course I don't have any problem with these messages, though of course a lot of this information is not the kind of thing you can verify - to me it's more like more seeing if it makes sense or completes a picture (potentially) through corroborating what comes across through other sources (like NDEs).

Anyhow, no biggy, but if you can point to those statements I'd be interested as nothing of the sort has leaped out to me.

p.s. I've discovered another "ultimate metaphysician" in the same vein - a level-headed and humble-appearing UK man by the name of Guy Steven Needler, who also seems to have accessed a sort of ultimate metaphysics and seemingly complete map of the Ultimate Reality through consistent meditation and communication with higher beings through altered states of consciousness, and I was struck by the immense similarities of the metaphysics they present, even down to details like the notion that what we call the Source, or God (and source of our physical universe, among other realms) is actually one of 12 such beings or entities, who were birthed by an Origin being. (Both talk also of sentience as what we are, as opposed to thinking, and residing not in the head but somewhere in the torso area, talk a lot about chakras, and also both insist on the importance of karma, which they both define as: the more you attach, invest in and identify with lower frequencies (which is pretty much anything on Earth), rather than being a neutral observer, the more you get "stuck" in those realms and keep reincarnating into the physical, for instance.)

... I was curious if you had or remembered any of the contradictory statements he's made?

Off the top of my head he made a bunch of claims about near death experiences and reincarnation that goes against actual studies in those areas. For example, claiming that everyone plans out their lives despite there being absolutely zero evidence of that from the studies done with young children who remember past lives, some of which who remember the in between phase, and a few of those involved events that can actually be verified. So basically standard new age bullshit. He also went on a long tirade about some entity named babaji or some such which contained a huge amount of logical contradictions, if I remember correctly it was a guy named Soterologist or something who catalogued those in a comment, to which he stated that he'd stopped listening after 20 minutes because of just how much of this bullshit had piled up just by that point. I personally didn't even bother listened to his last interview because I'd become so disgusted with him and very much regret having bought his book, which contains more new age garbage. It was to the point that I actually do doubt that he healed his own spine, there was another user that pointed out how it could've easily not been as it seemed and just been the result of removing the pressure from it that allowed it to slowly heal on its own. But holy shit, his certainy about things that he's absolutely wrong about and his inability to notice glaring logical contradictions in the stories he tells is absurd and tells me he's incredibly full of himself or at least delusional beyond help.