Seeing blindfolded

Psiclops on Skeptiko has started a thread on claims by Rob Freeman and Wendy Gallant about people's ability to learn to perceive colours and recognise numbers and letters when blindfolded. Freeman has posted a number of videos to YouTube. (Psiclops's post also refers briefly to training the blind to see. But perhaps that is a reference to the recognised phenomenon of "Blindsight," in which people who are blind for neurological reasons are able to perceive visual stimuli.)
http://www.skeptiko-forum.com/threads/is...ight.4447/

Of course, many people have claimed in the past to be able to see when blindfolded, and the usual conventional explanation has been that there was a gap in the blindfold and they were able to peek through it.

[Laird]

Of course, many people have claimed in the past to be able to see when blindfolded, and the usual conventional explanation has been that there was a gap in the blindfold and they were able to peek through it.

I don't think that that's a tenable explanation in this case. These people are thoroughly blindfolded.

Psiclops on Skeptiko has started a thread on claims by Rob Freeman and Wendy Gallant about people's ability to learn to perceive colours and recognise numbers and letters when blindfolded. Freeman has posted a number of videos to YouTube. (Psiclops's post also refers briefly to training the blind to see. But perhaps that is a reference to the recognised phenomenon of "Blindsight," in which people who are blind for neurological reasons are able to perceive visual stimuli.)
http://www.skeptiko-forum.com/threads/is...ight.4447/

Of course, many people have claimed in the past to be able to see when blindfolded, and the usual conventional explanation has been that there was a gap in the blindfold and they were able to peek through it.

I’m very cautious about random videos like this, there is so much scam stuff out there. An opening shot of the first video, where the lady asked the blindfolded girl to point to the green stripe on the beach ball suggests the lady unconsciously moved the ball to the correct position as the girl extended her arm, this is similar to the Diane Powell videos where the teacher moved the letter board to the correct position. You would want to see these children being researched properly, and if it’s so easy why hasn’t it be rigorously demonstrated by now, it looks simple and cheap to experiment with.

On the other hand, if the ‘car’ and ‘queen’ guesses by the children were truthful (the video was highly edited), this seems similar to Sony’s ESPER labs children studies (which I do have some trust in), but Sony said they couldn’t find any way to utilise the ability. That is... it’s not as accurate, reliable or as quick as just using ones eyes, and as you get older it seems to fade away, becoming next to useless (in the way it’s demonstrated here).

Anyway, I’m skeptical of the video, naturally. But because of ESPER, I’m open to it. For one example, Children ‘appear’ to absorb vast quantities of information very easily, now in my 50’s, I’m agog they can move from class to class at school every day, 5 days a week learning, and little kids are just a sponge, able to ask non stop questions until I’m worn out. Whereas as we get older, that ability for easy acquisition of knowledge gets less and less. We need a much better explanation for this fast learning which fades, than we currently have. We see exactly the same pattern in children who have so called past life memories, stronger early in life, then fading away as they get older, because frankly the information isn’t useful. Epigenetic inheritance studies using IVF on rodents show learning passing from sperm donor to its offspring, even when the sperm donor was killed before the offspring were even conceived.

But I think some in the higher echelons of society already know all this... they knew it in some different way over 2000 years ago... and it keeps getting rediscovered... then hidden away again...

Ever since learning about remote viewing I figured there should be some way to adapt it into a therapy for the blind since you're already getting accurate information you couldn't see in the first place. But I doubted it could replace sight.

To add some context - this has apparently been quite a well known claim in India over the last few years, linked to a purported training method for children known as "midbrain activation." The ability to see while blindfolded supposedly validates the method, for which quite high fees are charged. It has been covered by Brian Dunning's Skeptoid podcast. Dunning concluded that the training method was a scam, and that the blindfolded reading by the children was a simple trick:
https://skeptoid.com/episodes/4613

[Laird]

It has been covered by Brian Dunning's Skeptoid podcast. Dunning concluded that the training method was a scam, and that the blindfolded reading by the children was a simple trick

Of course he did. He writes: "The children are simply looking down through the gap on either side of their nose, the blindfolds having all been affixed in such a way as to permit that."

However, watching the videos which Psiclops posted to Skeptiko, it seems that that is simply not possible in many cases - e.g., when wearing the "MindSight" goggles which mould to the face.

[Laird]

Ever since learning about remote viewing I figured there should be some way to adapt it into a therapy for the blind since you're already getting accurate information you couldn't see in the first place. But I doubted it could replace sight.

I'm glad you noticed this thread, Mediochre, because it seems a good fit for your goal of developing real magic - and how else would one describe being able to see through blindfolds, or to break a solid metal rod with only a finger?

Of course he did. He writes: "The children are simply looking down through the gap on either side of their nose, the blindfolds having all been affixed in such a way as to permit that."

However, watching the videos which Psiclops posted to Skeptiko, it seems that that is simply not possible in many cases - e.g., when wearing the "MindSight" goggles which mould to the face.

He's apparently attacking an entirely seperate branch of Indian mysticism than what the video in the thread with the dojo was presenting which is from Indonesia. Even if Dunning was right about that particular branch, it would make sense that there would be fake imitations out there simply for the easy cash.

The claim is also completely different between the schools. The 'midbrain' theory is that there is a structure within the brain responsible for blindsight while the 'vibravision' technique claims its a form of remote viewing using 'vibrations'.

And yeah, it's laughable to claim that they're simply peeking. I would expect the only explanation from Dunning about the videos posted would be that they're clearly committing fraud because its impossible to see without your eyes.

From the MPUSA website (https://mp-usa.org/vibravision/)
Vibravision® comes from the Indonesian Royal Family’s martial art called Merpati Putih or MP. Vibravision has been used as an orientation and mobility method by blind people in Indonesia for decades. It is also used by the Indonesian elite military special forces, called Kopassus, in place of night vision technology.

Of course he did. He writes: "The children are simply looking down through the gap on either side of their nose, the blindfolds having all been affixed in such a way as to permit that."

However, watching the videos which Psiclops posted to Skeptiko, it seems that that is simply not possible in many cases - e.g., when wearing the "MindSight" goggles which mould to the face.

The trouble is that the demonstrations in the videos could be faked in other ways.

I'd have to ask - if it's really easy to train people to do this reliably, why has it not been verified in the lab under controlled conditions?

I'd have to ask - if it's really easy to train people to do this reliably, why has it not been verified in the lab under controlled conditions?

I think you overestimate how much attention scientists pay towards this sort of thing, and also how little interest there is generally in these communities to open themselves up to scientific inquiry (seen as attack by pseudoskeptics or government shills etc by some).. In my opinion there are probably tons of groups like this around the world that scientists will never hear about because they don't make themselves known to the scientific community.