(2017-09-05, 07:20 PM)Laird Wrote: Wait, who said the goal was to be "complete"? And why would we need to incarnate to achieve this? I suppose I should ask first of all what your metaphysical view is, because you state later that you are not sure that the "other" realm is perfect. So, then, what is it, and why can it not provide us with whatever "complete" understanding we need/desire without incarnating?
Do we really need all those complementary negatives? And if so, do we need to understand them through experiencing them? Surely, if I describe a murder to another person, s/he understands well enough how awful that would be without having to actually experience being murdered?
I don't know, is it? And what does "being complete" have to do with our ultimate aims? Aren't they to be happy and satisfied? Why would pain and suffering have anything to do with that?
OK, so, there are grades. Presumably then there is a Teacher who created us. Why did S/He create us at the lowest grade to start with rather than the highest?
Very good questions. Maybe the problem is trying to understand these things from the human perspective. Maybe the nature of the soul and its perspective are so alien we just can't wrap our limited minds around them. This would be a state of being in which, since thoughts are things and fulfillment of desires is instant, boredom sets in eventually and there is a great desire for the one thing this existence doesn't allow - limitation and separation and striving and the satisfaction of difficult achievement. To such Beings pain and suffering would be something experienced by their avatars in the limited physical world they created for this purpose. In this physical reality scenario set up by the souls, all the craziness, evil, and pointless suffering in the world would be merely means to an end - vicarious experience. This analysis sounds kind of cold, and is probably seriously flawed by not taking into account the love of the souls for their limited avatars, the humans they have created.
(This post was last modified: 2017-09-05, 08:20 PM by nbtruthman.
Edit Reason: new ideas
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(2017-09-05, 04:35 PM)nbtruthman Wrote: Pssst Wrote: [url=http://psiencequest.net/forums/post-3415.html#pid3415][/url]They can insist on anything they want, for that matter, it is an unique experience to go through life playing out the victim. Nonetheless, you create your physical reality, you're responsible for your physical experience, spirit all the time chooses to experience shitty lives. It's your choice, to either live your life through yourself or allow life to slam it to you.
I don't necessarily deny that life-between lives soul choice may be the actual process. I just question that it is a good thing from the human standpoint. It is the soul that benefits, not the human. Just try advocating this New Age philosophy to some people in a last-stage cancer ward, or to some paraplegics, or to some parents that have lost a child. Just get ready for some expletives. As to the claim that "you" create your physical reality, it is obviously not the physical human self that creates this - it presumably is the soul, and the soul must assume responsibility.
Considering that the 'human' and the human standpoint are illusions within physical reality, who cares? I just left a discussion with a medical professional with squamous cell cancer...terminal. Child loss is prevalent in my family, my father was a paraplegic stroke victim.
Yeah, ppl chose the continue to overplay the importance of life in physical reality, only the experiences have value and, apparently, your spirit self, the True You, selects these experiences for reasons unknown to me and, frankly, none of my business.
(2017-09-05, 05:52 PM)jkmac Wrote: You can't really learn the lesson of suffering, if you knew it wasn't really suffering after all.
Life, essentially, is meaningless until you choose what meaning you wish to apply to any given circumstance. If you understand that a specific event or set of events are a function of what you have created for yourself, and that nothing is accidental, why would you create a physical reality that has no benefit for you? You can chose to believe that is possible - it is not, Creation wastes nothing - but, again, it is always a choice and you are always free to choose either the positive or the negative each and every moment.
Thanks for your response, jkmac. I guess I was in a bit of a combative mood last night - I hope I didn't offend. I won't continue our exchange as (1) it's off-topic in this thread and (2) I don't want to argue with you, I'd rather keep things cordial between us. I think we've each said enough in any case that we get a sense of where the other's at. Best wishes to you!
(2017-09-06, 01:28 AM)Laird Wrote: Thanks for your response, jkmac. I guess I was in a bit of a combative mood last night - I hope I didn't offend. I won't continue our exchange as (1) it's off-topic in this thread and (2) I don't want to argue with you, I'd rather keep things cordial between us. I think we've each said enough in any case that we get a sense of where the other's at. Best wishes to you!
Agreed.
(2017-09-05, 08:08 PM)nbtruthman Wrote: In this physical reality scenario set up by the souls, all the craziness, evil, and pointless suffering in the world would be merely means to an end - vicarious experience.
This is what I have a problem with: that we would willingly put ourselves (or at least some of us) through what in this world are ghastly horrors. I don't think I have to tell you how bad it can get. I also have a problem with the implication that we would tolerate or even use metaphysical evil. And I have issues with some of the implications for free will when we go with the "you chose your life path in advance" story.
Edit: but, again, I don't want to sidetrack this thread, and this will probably be my last comment on this theme.
(This post was last modified: 2017-09-06, 01:44 AM by Laird.)
(2017-09-06, 01:43 AM)Laird Wrote: This is what I have a problem with: that we would willingly put ourselves (or at least some of us) through what in this world are ghastly horrors.
What if from your higher self perspective, this human life is a nanosecond, though? Or like a character in a book you're writing, or just a scary dream?
(This post was last modified: 2017-09-06, 04:01 AM by Ninshub.)
(2017-09-06, 04:01 AM)Ninshub Wrote: What if from your higher self perspective, this human life is a nanosecond, though?
Do you think that knowing that such a perspective might exist would be of much comfort to a human in a human perspective imprisoned and tortured for decades as a sex slave? These things happen.
(2017-09-06, 04:15 AM)Laird Wrote: Do you think that knowing that such a perspective might exist would be of much comfort to a human in a human perspective imprisoned and tortured for decades as a sex slave? These things happen.
No, I don't - definitely not, Laird. I gather finding out that perspective might exist would not make difference for many people in many situations!
Now someone having an experience that such a perspective exists, though (through an NDE, say - and I've heard NDE accounts where such a perspective is relayed to them) has a chance of changing their viewpoint, though, judging by reading the accounts.
(This post was last modified: 2017-09-06, 04:29 AM by Ninshub.)
(2017-09-06, 04:29 AM)Ninshub Wrote: No, I don't - definitely not, Laird. I gather finding out that perspective might exist would not make difference for many people in many situations!
Now someone having an experience that such a perspective exists, though (through an NDE, say - and I've heard NDE accounts where such a perspective is relayed to them) has a chance of changing their viewpoint, though, judging by reading the accounts.
Changing their viewpoint, maybe - but eliminating their agony?
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