Psience Quest Interview No. 1: Titus Rivas

Ah, yes... I was trying to go in that direction. My point was, why don't we -strangers- see more recreations of such incidents (like, for example, the many ghost soldiers and -Max's favorite- Roman legion apparition) coming from animals? Why don't they "imprint" in the medium? 


I wouldn't deny that animals are emotional and much more intelligent than people often give them credit for. But the idea of oblivion... I think that is a very human concept.


It's only that I was raised in a farm for several years. I'm sure you know what happens to chickens when they get old in there...

I'm sure there are many stories about all kinds of animal phantoms, for example ghostly horses. I see no reason to doubt this. 

You were talking about oblivion, I pointed out that affection would be a more likely motive.

I'm very aware of what happens to chickens, yes, and this usually happens long before they get really old. But what is your point? That they are treated very badly? Yes, certainly!

I'm sure there are many stories about all kinds of animal phantoms, for example ghostly horses that were killed on the battlefield. I see no reason to doubt this. 

You were talking about oblivion, I pointed out that affection would be more likely motive.

I'm very aware of what happens to chickens, yes, and this usually happens before they get really old. But what is your point? That they are treated very badly? Yes, certainly!

I should probably look up and see if there are some where the animals appear by themselves, independent of the imprint of the cavalry per se. 

Fair enough.

That I may have a few vindictive clucking ghosts after me... When you are raised in a self-sustaining and isolated environment, you don't get the luxury of avoiding whatever chore is assigned to you.

I should probably look up and see if there are some where the animals appear by themselves, independent of the imprint of the cavalry per se. 

Fair enough.

That I may have a few vindictive clucking ghosts after me... When you are raised in a self-sustaining and isolated environment, you don't get the luxury of avoiding whatever chore is assigned to you.

Ethical behavior can only be required of those that are free enough to make choices. For example, of most independent adults in the Western world.

[Laird]

Thank you, Titus, for your extended response to me, and for joining our forum to provide it!

To avoid a massive reply which would be tedious for you to respond to in turn, and because this is supposed to be an interview rather than a debate or discussion, I'll simply (1) affirm that whilst we might have a few minor differences of opinion, on the whole I generally agree with what you wrote, and, (2) ask a single follow-up question re this:

And I dismiss Cleve Backster's and similar research as most probably based either on fraud or on psychokinesis, coming from the experimenter.

I wonder whether the fact that the very skeptical Mythbusters team replicated Cleve Backster's original finding - in their 61st episode, which aired on September 6, 2006 - causes you to adjust your view? (It is also very relevant to this forum because it indicates that plants are telepathic). Here's the relevant extract from the show:

Finally, even if plants felt pain and fear, there would be a vegan way out, namely fruitarianism. Fruit and similar sources of alimentation such as nuts are "meant" to be eaten. Not even the plants themselves could "mind" if we continued to use them  

Indeed. :-) This is the approach I take, although in my current living circumstances, it is challenging to implement.

Ethical behavior can only be required of those that are free enough to make choices. For example, of most independent adults in the Western world.

True. But, still disturbing to learn of this.

I wonder whether the fact that the very skeptical Mythbusters team replicated Cleve Backster's original finding - in their 61st episode, which aired on September 6, 2006 - causes you to adjust your view? (It is also very relevant to this forum because it indicates that plants are telepathic). Here's the relevant extract from the show:

Well, I've read that many others failed to replicate Backster's results, so I would think (excluding mere coincidence and similar trivial factors) an exceptional positive result would indicate that in some cases there is a (human) psychokinetic effect.

Thank you for participating in this interview, Titus.

Re. cats and vegan food - do you see any possible ethical conflicts in living a vegan lifestyle but keeping an obligate carnivore as a pet, and in putting such an animal on a diet it would not seek out on its own?

Re. psychical research in general - what sort of reception do these kinds of ideas enjoy in your country? Is there the same sort of media-friendly back-and-forth between promoters of research and their critics the way there is here in the States, or in the UK?

Delineating human pychokineces from cellular intelligence is beyond my ken. But subjectively I strongly believe that plants are involved in the consciousness matrix.

Thank you for participating in this interview, Titus.

Re. cats and vegan food - do you see any possible ethical conflicts in living a vegan lifestyle but keeping an obligate carnivore as a pet, and in putting such an animal on a diet it would not seek out on its own?

Re. psychical research in general - what sort of reception do these kinds of ideas enjoy in your country? Is there the same sort of media-friendly back-and-forth between promoters of research and their critics the way there is here in the States, or in the UK?

Hi Will,

Regarding your first question: No, I don't see any ethical conflict, because an instinctual desire to kill can be canalized through play (at least in dogs and cats, if it is not possible, then the species is simply unsuitable as a pet) and the taste of meat can be imitated almost to perfection by meat substitutes. The element of deception (in both cases) is trivial compared to killing another animal for pet food (and it is not as though the pets could ever find out you're deceiving them foodwise and feel betrayed  ). So the choice should be obvious, I believe.

Regarding the second question; the situation in the Netherlands used to be better than it is today, but there still is a Dutch SPR, a Parapsychological Institute, and a Network Near-Death Experiences (of Pim van Lommel, Rudolf Smit, Ruud van Wees, myself, etc.). In terms of media coverage, there are occasional documentaries (for instance a recent documentary about the archives concerning the world famous Dutch psychic Gerard Croiset) and interviews (e.g. with Pim van Lommel, Hans Gerding, or international researchers such as Eben Alexander). There used to be many TV-programs surrounding several British, Dutch and American mediums, including Derek Ogilvie, Char Margolis, Allison DuBois ('Medium'), Robbert van den Broeke, and James van Praagh, but most of them seem to have become much less popular.

There is a skeptical society called Skepsis, but there are hardly any public debates between members of Skepsis and their opponents. Rudolf Smit and myself discussed several paranormal NDEs with Gerald Woerlee. In general, relations between skeptical debunkers and more zetetic psychical researchers are very bad over here. To the extent that we usually ignore each other's work and avoid personal contact with each other. Most Dutch skeptics are convinced that anything paranormal is simply bogus and feel the need to ridicule anyone who does not agree with them.
By the way, it seems better to reserve this topic for other threads, because it would become too off topic here, I suppose.

[Laird]

By the way, it seems better to reserve this topic for other threads, because it would become too off topic here, I suppose.

I hope this is an indication that you are willing to stick around and continue contributing to the forum in general, Titus!

Re your suggestion that the results of Cleve Backster, as replicated by the Mythbusters team, are due to PK rather than telepathy, I suppose I can only say that this seems to fly in the face of all of the other behaviour of plants that points to a sense of self/awareness. To take a striking example, I would recommend checking out the video that I linked to in a post in another thread in which two plants compete for a hold, and when one of them gets there first, the second visibly gives up.

In any case, we both agree that even if plants are sentient, there is a form of vegan diet (fruitarianism) that can accommodate this, so clearly this can't be used as an argument against veganism.