(2020-11-10, 04:37 PM)Steve001 Wrote: Paul had a very good reply in post 36. In a sense I do think science has the higher ground because of all of the advances it has made revealing nature's mysteries. If only philosophy could progress in such away.
But this is a fallacy Steve.
Lots of scientific theories thought to hold the same "high ground" only to later be found as false or more aptly NOT predictive of future knowledge.
You aren't standing on a mountain top; its merely your perception that as you look out at the rest of us it "feels" like you are on higher ground. You aren't. You're in the muck with the rest of us who are trying to wrestle these things to the ground.
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(2020-11-10, 04:37 PM)Steve001 Wrote: Paul had a very good reply in post 36. In a sense I do think science has the higher ground because of all of the advances it has made revealing nature's mysteries. If only philosophy could progress in such away.
Hmmm, it makes me wonder what scientists have to say...
Quote:Nobel prize winners who believed in some paranormal phenomenon because of their own research, the research of others or their own experiences.
It doesn't seem like scientists are exclusively physicalists....I mean nothing I've ever read has convinced me that Physicalism is true.
I am willing to suspend my belief that Physicalism is completely nonsensical - a view shared by Neuroscience PhD & New Atheist Horseman Sam Harris btw - if you can explain how matter that has no mental character ends up producing minds.
If you have already provided it, feel free to paste it here and we'll see if I find it satisfactory.
'Historically, we may regard materialism as a system of dogma set up to combat orthodox dogma...Accordingly we find that, as ancient orthodoxies disintegrate, materialism more and more gives way to scepticism.'
(2020-11-10, 04:55 PM)Silence Wrote: But this is a fallacy Steve.
Lots of scientific theories thought to hold the same "high ground" only to later be found as false or more aptly NOT predictive of future knowledge.
You aren't standing on a mountain top; its merely your perception that as you look out at the rest of us it "feels" like you are on higher ground. You aren't. You're in the muck with the rest of us who are trying to wrestle these things to the ground.
I also wonder what exactly would change regarding Science if Idealism was true and the grounding of reality was mental?
Or if this reality is really just the Matrix, and the world beyond the Matrix perhaps is a place where macro-PK and mediumship happens on the daily to millions of people.
'Historically, we may regard materialism as a system of dogma set up to combat orthodox dogma...Accordingly we find that, as ancient orthodoxies disintegrate, materialism more and more gives way to scepticism.'
(2020-11-10, 05:07 PM)Sciborg_S_Patel Wrote: Or if this reality is really just the Matrix, and the world beyond the Matrix perhaps is a place where macro-PK and mediumship happens on the daily to millions of people.
Or in the world beyond a satisfactory explanation might be understood for the process of a non-deterministic, non-chance free choice could be make by a conscious agent?
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(This post was last modified: 2020-11-10, 05:53 PM by Silence.)
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(2020-11-10, 05:05 PM)Sciborg_S_Patel Wrote: Hmmm, it makes me wonder what scientists have to say...
It doesn't seem like scientists are exclusively physicalists....I mean nothing I've ever read has convinced me that Physicalism is true.
I am willing to suspend my belief that Physicalism is completely nonsensical - a view shared by Neuroscience PhD & New Atheist Horseman Sam Harris btw - if you can explain how matter that has no mental character ends up producing minds.
If you have already provided it, feel free to paste it here and we'll see if I find it satisfactory.
There must be a curse on scientists who reject materialism... They almost all appear to be dead.
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(This post was last modified: 2020-11-10, 09:12 PM by malf.
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(2020-11-10, 07:34 PM)malf Wrote: There must be a curse on scientists who reject materialism... They all appear to be dead.
Sam Harris died?
Brian Josephson?
Lee Smolin?
....I can keep making this list if you want....
But still seems like no one here can provide an explanation that I find satisfactory so I guess Physicalism is false...
'Historically, we may regard materialism as a system of dogma set up to combat orthodox dogma...Accordingly we find that, as ancient orthodoxies disintegrate, materialism more and more gives way to scepticism.'
(2020-11-10, 05:53 PM)Silence Wrote: Or in the world beyond a satisfactory explanation might be understood for the process of a non-deterministic, non-chance free choice could be make by a conscious agent?
Heheheh....depends on who is needing be satisfied...
'Historically, we may regard materialism as a system of dogma set up to combat orthodox dogma...Accordingly we find that, as ancient orthodoxies disintegrate, materialism more and more gives way to scepticism.'
I would imagine the ratio of materialists to non-materialists among scientists is similar to that of non scientists given that science cannot prove the non-existence of the non-material and also doesn't claim to be able to do so.
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