NDE Research - Changes You'd Want to See

If it hadn’t been for those pesky kids I’d have proved my theory!!!! 

You've lost me there, Stan ?

Scooby Doo. 

Unfortunately I don't think the traditional 'disembodied eyes' OBE idea fits very well with either our observations, or personal experiences Tim. I appreciate you disagree.

It's a disembodied mind, Max not eyeballs but it's a perfect fit ! They describe whatever constitutes what is real and vital about themselves, as becoming separate from their physical body which they can then (usually) clearly see, sometimes not even realising that the person they are seeing is actually them at first. if it was mental confabulation, they wouldn't wonder about who it was. Why would the mind confabulate an out of body experience with the wrong body...doesn't make sense (I know that's not your idea but most of the sceptics on here believe that)

Just like you know where you are now (presumably sitting in front of your laptop or whatever you have) they have the unshakeable conviction that they are floating around (wherever they want to go) or standing at the side of their bodies, or passing through the wall, whatever.

I know this is happening, Max, there's far too many reports. Doesn't prove life after death, never said it did but as Pim Van Lommel said, it could hardly be anything else.

Another suggestion: Direct experience comparisons. As I said in the first post, descriptions of DMT experiences don't bear a whole lot of resemblance to classic NDEs in the details, but some drug experiences do report similar phenomena; the sense of being one with the universe, or of a change in the perception of time, at least, have come up. If you could get permission (and proper safety standards), then a volunteer group of NDErs who've had sufficiently deep experiences could try DMT, ketamine, and whatever other substances have been proposed, and report on how that experience matches up with their NDE. If a majority report that they were similar or identical, then you could follow up on that; if a majority report that they weren't alike, then that's further grounds to rule out a chemical component.

Do you have any data on near death experiences related by rats ?

Nothing not already mentioned.

Nothing not already mentioned.

Okay, thanks. If you could just point out a previous reference to where a rat has reported a near death experience, that would be really helpful.

Another suggestion: Direct experience comparisons. As I said in the first post, descriptions of DMT experiences don't bear a whole lot of resemblance to classic NDEs in the details, but some drug experiences do report similar phenomena; the sense of being one with the universe, or of a change in the perception of time, at least, have come up. If you could get permission (and proper safety standards), then a volunteer group of NDErs who've had sufficiently deep experiences could try DMT, ketamine, and whatever other substances have been proposed, and report on how that experience matches up with their NDE. If a majority report that they were similar or identical, then you could follow up on that; if a majority report that they weren't alike, then that's further grounds to rule out a chemical component.

 "a volunteer group of NDErs who've had sufficiently deep experiences could try DMT, ketamine, and whatever other substances have been proposed,"

Will, I know you're probably new to all this but the vast majority of people who have had a deep NDE would not be the slightest bit interested in participating in such a venture. They don't have any doubts about what they experienced and they don't need to go there. But of course it might be better if you heard that from someone who's had one, not me.

Okay, thanks. If you could just point out a previous reference to where a rat has reported a near death experience, that would be really helpful.

That wasn't what I was posting about.. you're conflating my posts with Max's.