God/Source as separate or not from humans according to psi

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(2022-01-23, 01:49 PM)Stan Woolley Wrote: And when you and others are happy that those closed doors are firmly shut so that no-one is allowed to see what might be happening - that’s when real evil is allowed to flourish. 

God is interested in what occurs on both sides of the door Brian. You can fool humans, but not God.
I'll respond to this not as a moderator but a regular forum member, on matters of spiritual basis.

One could argue that "evil" is in the eye of the beholder - whatever the social or political topic, there is always a viewpoint on the other side, often strongly felt, that what the other side is doing is "evil". You seem to be taking an absolute stance in this case as to what the "other side" is doing is evil. I'm sure there are people on the other side (and this doesn't include myself) who think people who hold your position is "evil" in this context. I'm not quite sure about the practical merits of this view, or its essential rightness.

Secondly it's been a few times you bring "God" into the discussion. The view implied by your posts in this manner seems to be that "God" is something other and different, very transcendent in a way, than the collective of "souls" - whether human, animal, etc. And yet don't most NDEs (or a large amount of them), and a lot of other psi material, point to "God" being immanent rather than transcendent, and there not being that marked difference between God/Source and the souls that make he/she/it up? The view you're bringing forth seems to resemble that of traditional Western religions (Christianity, Judaism, Islam) where the spirituality of NDEs and other psi phenomenon doesn't make a dent.
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(2022-01-23, 02:39 PM)Ninshub Wrote: You seem to be taking an absolute stance in this case as to what the "other side" is doing is evil.


I don’t think that’s quite right. 
I think that much of what I’m witnessing can lead to evil, like the firm closing of doors, censorship and the certainty of some of the “other sides” thinking. The difference is that I’m not forcing my tendencies of thought on others. In my opinion it’s ok to have an absolute idea about things, the problem comes about when that absolute idea turns into actions that affect others freedoms. 


Quote:people who hold your position is "evil" in this context.


As you appear to know what my position is, would you care to summarise it for us?


Quote:Secondly it's been a few times you bring "God" into the discussion. The view implied by your posts in this manner seems to be that "God" is something other and different, very transcendent in a way, than the collective of "souls" - whether human, animal, etc. And yet don't most NDEs (or a large amount of them), and a lot of other psi material, point to "God" being immanent rather than transcendent, and there not being that marked difference between God/Source and the souls that make he/she/it up?


In my opinion we are on earth, temporarily (perhaps) separated from the light of God. So as to experience and learn lessons valuable lessons. So in one way, I don’t think God’s that close to us while we are busy here. Sure, God may well be everywhere, including here, but I think it’s possible to devise ways of fooling us into believing otherwise.

Does this clarify things at all?
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(2022-01-23, 04:01 PM)Stan Woolley Wrote: In my opinion we are on earth, temporarily (perhaps) separated from the light of God. So as to experience and learn lessons valuable lessons. So in one way, I don’t think God’s that close to us while we are busy here. Sure, God may well be everywhere, including here, but I think it’s possible to devise ways of fooling us into believing otherwise.

Does this clarify things at all?

(I'll stick to this topic, since the rest if of less interest to me, but thanks for clarifying anyway.)

Yes it does, to some extent. But where is your soul in all of this? Is it waiting for you on the other side, or is it already a part of you here? And when you say "I don't think God's that close to us while we are busy here", that again seems to imply a God that is distant from your own "soul". That the human has no access to the soul part, and no connection to Source while here. I'm not saying I think the human can have trouble accessing that part, or be in disunity with it - but your stance seems to imply radical separation, rather than partial. And what you write also implies "God" is a top, separate point of Source, almost like a father to a child, rather than, for example, the culmination of all. What I hear the words you've written, I could easily see a Christian, a Jew, a Muslim writing the same words (maybe minus the "we're here to learn valuable lessons" part.) And most of the time (not always), I sense a different nuance in NDE testimonies, where I usually don't see that radical separation.

And, only if you care to answer, since I know you value the wisdom imparted in NDEs, and I seem to remember you mentioning your favorite NDE but I can't place it now, what is it from NDEs or specific NDEs that inform the spiritual view you just described?
(This post was last modified: 2022-01-23, 05:30 PM by Ninshub. Edited 1 time in total.)
Few, if any of us have avoided religious influences during our lifetimes. Therefore we tend to think of God as a person because that's how "He" is portrayed in religious teaching, especially Abrahamic religions.

Those who look deeper (and I had though that included most of us here) become aware of a different - perhaps more philosophical - concept of what we still call God. A concept that recognises the reality of infinite and ubiquitous consciousness which, in my own view, is synonymous with God. Not some judgemental person standing apart from what we like to think of as "His" creation but the totality of creation. 

I think that is the message we get from so many NDEs, from ADCs and from what has come to be known as the Perennial Philosophy.
I do not make any clear distinction between mind and God. God is what mind becomes when it has passed beyond the scale of our comprehension.
Freeman Dyson
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(2022-01-23, 04:17 PM)Ninshub Wrote: And, only if you care to answer, since I know you value the wisdom imparted in NDEs, and I seem to remember you mentioning your favorite NDE but I can't place it now, what is it from NDEs or specific NDEs that inform the spiritual view you just described?


My favourite NDE video is Wayne Morrison. 

I am also in touch with Christian Sundberg, an NDEr. Here he explains quite clearly what I tried and obviously failed to put across. People here often complain about social media - this is a great example of its value. I have asked him further to give his knowledge of what ‘our soul’ might be and exactly what happens to it while we’re here. I have really no idea. I’ll post his reply when able. 

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(2022-01-23, 02:39 PM)Ninshub Wrote: ... "God" is something other and different, very transcendent in a way, than the collective of "souls" - whether human, animal, etc. And yet don't most NDEs (or a large amount of them), and a lot of other psi material, point to "God" being immanent rather than transcendent, and there not being that marked difference between God/Source and the souls that make he/she/it up? The view you're bringing forth seems to resemble that of traditional Western religions (Christianity, Judaism, Islam) where the spirituality of NDEs and other psi phenomenon doesn't make a dent.

Just to clarify: Christianity, and, I think, it's Western siblings, views God as both immanent and transcendent. Thus it views both Gnostic style transcendence and pantheistic immanence as anathema to good Christian doctrine.

Of course, it is true that orthodox Christianity holds to an ultimate (though not complete) ontological distinction between creator and created. We are permeated by the breath of God, but are not, in the final analysis, God. 

This is also why it is so important to healthy Christian metaphysics that Jesus remains a literal incarnation of God, as opposed to a 'great teacher', or some such. By being born of a woman, by living and dying as man, all of nature, and all of human life, birth death, marriage, the breaking of bread, et cetera, is made sacred.

Oh, dear, I think I'm sounding like a religious nut.

(2022-01-23, 10:10 PM)Kamarling Wrote: Few, if any of us have avoided religious influences during our lifetimes. Therefore we tend to think of God as a person because that's how "He" is portrayed in religious teaching, especially Abrahamic religions.

Those who look deeper (and I had though that included most of us here) become aware of a different - perhaps more philosophical - concept of what we still call God. 


Yes. But is it a gain or a loss?
Formerly dpdownsouth. Let me dream if I want to.
(This post was last modified: 2022-01-24, 01:37 PM by woethekitty. Edited 2 times in total.)
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(2022-01-24, 08:48 AM)Stan Woolley Wrote: I am also in touch with Christian Sundberg, an NDEr. Here he explains quite clearly what I tried and obviously failed to put across. People here often complain about social media - this is a great example of its value. I have asked him further to give his knowledge of what ‘our soul’ might be and exactly what happens to it while we’re here. I have really no idea. I’ll post his reply when able. 


I've listened to the video, and I've also listened to parts of an interview he gave elsewhere. What I hear him say seems to be at odds with what you wrote:


Quote:In my opinion we are on earth, temporarily (perhaps) separated from the light of God. So as to experience and learn lessons valuable lessons. So in one way, I don’t think God’s that close to us while we are busy here. Sure, God may well be everywhere, including here, but I think it’s possible to devise ways of fooling us into believing otherwise. 

He is saying our human experience is one of apparent separateness and it's our buying into this belief that is part of what is creating that experience. He then goes on to say that we can experientially connect to source right now, which also contradicts the "temporary separation" you're talking about. The words you write (and that I often react to in your other posts) seem to me to indicate you're buying into that belief.

In the interview I listened to online from him, at the end he said the most important thing we should take away from what he says is: You are not the human. And that we shouldn't get lost in the stories of our lives, or the larger story of the human drama around us. He says YOU are the spirit (soul) consciousness having that human experience, rather than the human.

He said he is influenced by the channelled writings of Silver Birch and Seth.

p.s. I don't think he is an NDEr. He's someone who had memories of his previous life at childhood, then remembered them through meditation at an adult age, and from there started having OBEs.

I can confidently feel I can predict his response to you will be: your "soul" is not anywhere from here. It IS you. But it's having this human experience where it's easy to experience separateness (which we project onto our religions, he says in that video also).

Here's the page where the interview is at:
https://www.guylawrence.com.au/a-walk-in...-sundberg/
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(2022-01-24, 09:55 PM)Ninshub Wrote: What I hear him say seems to be at odds with what you wrote:


That’s why I said…“Here he explains quite clearly what I tried and obviously failed to put across”.”

I also wrote…


Quote:God may well be everywhere, including here, but I think it’s possible to devise ways of fooling us into believing otherwise. 


I rely on my intuition a lot, so details are really secondary to me. Describing this material in detail is not possible. It’s guesswork a lot of the time, it’s certainly not the stuff of science papers, I don’t think it would pass peer review. Well, mine certainly wouldn’t. 

Is it obvious to the majority of humans that God is present? I think not. 

It’s not that far from what I wrote. 

He says when we come to earth our frequency decreases like detuning a radio frequency off the scale, way down. God may not appear to be present at such frequencies, but as I believe every single thing is God then how can it be anything but an illusion?

While we may know or think that we know that God is indeed ‘present’, we definitely don’t act like we’re high frequency beings. 

The ego and God can maybe be relatively easily described - but the soul? 

Here is what he wrote to me…


Quote:Hello sir! Regarding "how is our soul connected to us"- the world is appearing on and in consciousness. There is no true separation- only the apparent experience of separation, which is "worn" on and in consciousness, perhaps like a heavy vest. The question is a bit like saying, "When you play an online role playing game, where in the video game is the connection of the character to the player?"- the game only exists as played by the player; the connection is intimate. Regarding what portion incarnates- the much "larger portion" of ourselves remains on the other side (only a small portion or perhaps "allocation" is incarnated), and yet simultaneously and without contradiction, the you that you are right now IS the soul, having the experience being Stephen. So, you are you- just not aware of the full content of you at this time. Yes, our soul is an intrinsic part of God, like a drop of the ocean that is a part of the whole ocean. The experience of separation is one of the main elements of this simulation- it is in the very nature of the constraints we sign up for here. What do you mean by "soul aspect of our earth adventure"?


Later he added…


Quote:Just wondering for context sir, have you taken a look at my book A Walk in the Physical? Just asking as I try to go to some length there to speak to how the nature of soul or consciousness itself cannot be described 🙂


I have bought his book and have permission to copy his answers here.
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 and yet simultaneously and without contradiction, the you that you are right now IS the soul, having the experience being Stephen. So, you are you- just not aware of the full content of you at this time. 

Thanks for posting his reply. That's what I expected and jives with what he was saying elsewhere. 

So we are not separated from "the light of 'God'".The drop of ocean is part of the ocean.
(2022-01-25, 12:35 AM)Ninshub Wrote: So we are not separated from "the light of 'God'".The drop of ocean is part of the ocean.


You were very right, I was very wrong.
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