God Helmet - Failed Replication Debacle

[Laird]

Not to be a dick, tim, but just for the sake of fairness and balance, this is how the account in the book chapter from which you quoted in post #8 above ends:

As I transcribed my words, I realized that in my skepticism, my memory had filtered out some of my responses to Persinger’s electromagnetic waves. Manipulating my temporal lobes had evoked mental images—and, who knows, perhaps the memory of my prophecy for Sheila. I conceded that I could not easily dismiss Michael Persinger’s work, nor his discomfiting assertion that God is all in one’s head.

Whilst I quite readily dismiss the assertion that God is all in one's head, it does seem that Persinger did get some interesting results.

I think a better response than "but replications failed" though is: so what? We already know that various other physical interventions such as psychedelic drugs can (somewhat reliably) facilitate spiritual experiences. If those don't lead us to hypothesise that consciousness is generated by the brain and the spiritual is but a neurological illusion, then why would electromagnetically-induced spiritual experiences?

[Laird]

I suppose that the idea is one of specific causation: when Persinger manipulates the electromagnetic field to the specific configuration X, the subject experiences the specific experience Y. Thus, we can deduce that X specifically causes Y specifically.

OK, there's a logic to that. But then the question becomes: how comparable to genuine, full-blown NDEs are any of the experiences Y, and, especially, are any of them veridical? If they become comparable then we have something very interesting going on: not by any means a proof of a neurological basis for consciousness (because genuine veridical NDEs with a dead subject who is later revived have disproved that already), but an insight into how the physical mediates the spiritual.

Not to be a dick, tim, but just for the sake of fairness and balance, this is how the account in the book chapter from which you quoted in post #8 above ends:


Whilst I quite readily dismiss the assertion that God is all in one's head, it does seem that Persinger did get some interesting results.

I think a better response than "but replications failed" though is: so what? We already know that various other physical interventions such as psychedelic drugs can (somewhat reliably) facilitate spiritual experiences. If those don't lead us to hypothesise that consciousness is generated by the brain and the spiritual is but a neurological illusion, then why would electromagnetically-induced spiritual experiences?

As I transcribed my words, I realized that in my skepticism, my memory had filtered out some of my responses to Persinger’s electromagnetic waves. Manipulating my temporal lobes had evoked mental images—and, who knows, perhaps the memory of my prophecy for Sheila. I conceded that I could not easily dismiss Michael Persinger’s work, nor his discomfiting assertion that God is all in one’s head.

I didn't link to that article as a scientific/reliable source of information. I linked to it to show you that Persinger wore his suit while mowing the lawn. The other bit I posted about her experience within the helmet was just something mildly interesting, that's all. No claims from me about what she said or didn't say. 

The bolded above that you posted (and I bolded) is perfectly inline with what I already said previously. I hope you pursue other members with the same vigour you seem to be pursuing me with, Laird. (and no I'm not offended and neither should you be)

Exactly, you’ve grasped the issue I was addressing which has nothing to do with NDE’s, and everything to do with refuting biased articles suggesting Persinger’s magnetic field studies have been debunked.

Tim hasn’t understood that, or why I’m posting this now, which was in response to another member who posted a link to a terribly biased article which was used to debunk Persenger’s studies.

Max, I do understand. But Persingers helmet was an attempt to recreate and explain the phenomenon of NDE and it didn't. 

Your interest in Persinger's helmet stems from your own liking for the potential of electromagnetic fields to add support to your own completely unproven and untested theory, which has no scientific basis whatsoever. 

I'm not sure why you are given a free ride (from Laird) with it on the forum but I wouldn't be in favour of you being closed down with your ideas. They are interesting.

[Laird]

I hope you pursue other members with the same vigour you seem to be pursuing me with, Laird.

Certainly, tim. There's no respite for anybody when I'm in pursuit.

You are free to go about your business. Peace be.

Persinger, it seems to me, may not have believed in God but he did have an interesting career in parapsychology:

Persinger also investigated geomagnetic relationship in the context of other seemingly paranormal experiences such as UFO sightings. He found that such reports between 1950 and 1966 indicated not only an inverse relationship with geomagnetic activity – in keeping with the other research domains – but a positive relationship with tectonic strain. Putting these two findings together, Persinger predicted that the next 14 years – 1967 to 1981 – would also show a similar level of concordance with UFO reports. This proved to be the case: 80% of the temporal variation in such UFO sightings could be accounted for by Persinger’s modelling.9

The robust relationship found in natural settings is also evident in analyses of historical laboratory psi data. Persinger and Krippner10 examined the Maimonides dream telepathy experiments and found the most successful sessions occurred on geomagnetically quiet nights – around 10 nT (nanoTesla). Geomagnetic activity above 25 nT was associated with low scoring. Persinger also examined card-guessing data from the early Rhine period culled from 185 studies and found that the most successful years were also the quietest geomagnetically

In the late 1990s Ingo Swann, a psychic well-known to the parapsychology community, was extensively tested by Persinger’s neuroscience research group. In the first experiment, Persinger probed for neural correlates of successful remote viewing performance in which there was a notable spike in the 7-Hz range including slow wave activity over the occipital lobes. A general neuropsychological assessment combined with Magnetic Resonance Imaging (MRI) indicated that Swann’s brain exhibited an unusual structural and functional organization within the parieto-occipital region of the right hemisphere. Persinger concluded that Swann’s remote viewing ability could be enhanced by the applied magnetic field and that neural signatures of successful remote viewing performance could be identified.

Persinger, it seems to me, may not have believed in God but he did have an interesting career in parapsychology:

Persinger also believed that ghosts/poltergeists were a product of geophysics and geomagnetic activity affecting people's brains according to the documentary I posted in another thread. 

He claimed that many haunted places he had visited have fluctuations in electromagnetic activity caused by their locations on Earth. He theorised that this affected the brainwaves of those there over a period of time, causing them to experience ghostly phenomena that can be attributed to hallucinations. The documentary alluded to his God Helmet experiment as well. But I found several problems with this theory:

• How do you explain hauntings that seem to target people rather than locations e.g. the Batzel haunting featured in the documentary? I find it very unlikely that every house the Batzels moved into, including the final one they built themselves, was on a site of geomagnetic activity. 
  
• How is it possible for the ghostly activity to subside following some paranormal investigations that manage to 'free' the spirit(s)? Is this a case of the Placebo Effect overpowering the electromagnetic waves or does the geomagnetic activity just conveniently die down around these times? 
  
• How plausible is it that geomagnetic activity would cause those living in these locations to perceive the exact same apparitions (veridical), as has been reported numerous times? 
  
• To what extent are electromagnetic waves affecting brainwaves capable of causing poltergeist activity such as the scribblings on the walls the Batzels described? The Batzels even took photos apparently of these drawings...
  
• Just how powerful are these natural electromagnetic waves? We know stimulated waves can affect us to some degree, but do these natural ones have the same level of effect? Persinger didn't elaborate on this in the documentary IIRC. 
  

This theory also suggests that strange phenomena caught on camera of supposed ghosts that aren't debunked as normal animals or objects, camera problems or motion blur can be said to be evidence of this electro-magnetic activity in action. However, this doesn't necessarily apply to all ghost photos or videos. 


If anyone could find anything further on this theory that would be appreciated, since I feel I've seen this theory before on some science sites...