Five Arguments Against the Extraterrestrial Origin of UFOs

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Five Arguments Against the Extraterrestrial Origin of UFOs

J. Vallee

Quote:Abstract

Scientific opinion has generally followed public opinion in the belief that unidentified flying objects either do not exist (the "natural phe- nomena hypothesis") or, if they do, must represent evidence of a visitation by some advanced race of space travellers (the extraterrestrial hypothesis or "ETH"). It is the view of the author that research on UFOs need not be restricted to these two alternatives. On the contrary, the accumulated data base exhibits several patterns tending to indicate that UFOs are real, represent a previously unrecognized phenomenon, and that the facts do not
support the common concept of "space visitors." Five specific arguments articulated here contradict the ETH: 

(1) unexplained close encounters are far more numerous than required for any physical survey of the earth; 

(2) the humanoid body structure of the alleged "aliens" is not likely to have originated on another planet and is not biologically adapted to space travel;

(3) the reported behavior in thousands of abduction reports contradicts the hypothesis of genetic or scientific experimentation on humans by an advanced race; 

(4) the extension of the phenomenon throughout recorded human history demonstrates that UFOs are not a contemporary phenomenon; and 

(5) the apparent ability of UFOs to manipulate space and time suggests radically different and richer alternatives, three of which are proposed in outline form as a conclusion to this paper
'Historically, we may regard materialism as a system of dogma set up to combat orthodox dogma...Accordingly we find that, as ancient orthodoxies disintegrate, materialism more and more gives way to scepticism.'

- Bertrand Russell


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(2024-06-15, 09:00 PM)Sciborg_S_Patel Wrote: Five Arguments Against the Extraterrestrial Origin of UFOs

J. Vallee

Vallee's arguments seem valid to me with the possible exception of #2, but he was assuming that all UFO-related experiences have one single origin - if that exists it doesn't look to be ETH. As I have suggested, a certain subset of UFO encounters seem very much like ETH, and I think this category of sightings constitutes a distinct and separate phenomenon from many of the weirder cases.
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From the book Wonders in the Sky: Unexplained Aerial Objects from Antiquity to Modern Times -.

Quote:Anomalies are a threat to the intellectual status quo. They are powerfully resisted, and that resistance often seems to co-opt the efforts of those bravely investigating the anomalous just as much as it recruits the efforts of intransigent skeptics. As Thomas Kuhn’s ground-breaking work showed, this cultural dynamic is inseparable from more obvious data in the effort to make—and to understand—scientific progress. The initial response of a paradigm to anomalies is to ignore or, when reports become too numerous, to assimilate. Both of these strategies are facilitated by the distribution of anomalous reports across a large number of apparently disparate conceptual categories.

This process is facilitated by investigators who rush to theories, such as the extraterrestrial spaceship explanation of UFOs, that divide large sets of anomalous reports into smaller and more numerous subdivisions.

UFOs do not seem like Newfoundland weather lights or Will-o’-the-Wisp or the burning ship of Ocracoke Island—until you strip away the culturally elaborated language and secondary interpretations, leaving “anomalous aerial phenomena.” Just as “sleep paralysis,” “the Old Hag” and UFO abductions don’t appear similar—until you strip away the cultural layers and find “Waking up paralyzed with a sense of a strange…presence…in the room.” This is the beauty of the approach pioneered by Vallee in Magonia. Wonders in the Sky extends this with the huge corpus of additional early reports assembled by Chris Aubeck and his colleagues through The Magoniax Project. The willingness of these authors to cast a very wide net, and not to allow the particular cultural interpretations of events to limit their view, offers us a remarkable opportunity to seek patterns that may lead to new understandings.

Vallee, Jacques; Aubeck, Chris. Wonders in the Sky: Unexplained Aerial Objects from Antiquity to Modern Times

Will post some details of varied cases in this thread to show how far back the UFO/UAP phenomenon goes.
'Historically, we may regard materialism as a system of dogma set up to combat orthodox dogma...Accordingly we find that, as ancient orthodoxies disintegrate, materialism more and more gives way to scepticism.'

- Bertrand Russell


(2024-06-26, 11:16 PM)Sciborg_S_Patel Wrote: Will post some details of varied cases in this thread to show how far back the UFO/UAP phenomenon goes.

Quote:Consider the following incident, which transports us to the year 438...

...In the midst of the entire crowd, a child was suddenly taken up by a strong force, so high into the air that they lost sight of him. After this he came down as he had gone up, and told Patriarch Proclus, the Emperor himself, and the assembled multitude that he had just attended a great concert of the Angels hailing the Lord in their sacred canticles.

Angels or Aliens? Many contemporary reports of abductions involve ordinary humans caught up by a strange force that alters their reality in drastic ways and causes them to report contact with other forms of consciousness, or even with a totally alien world.

Acacius, bishop of Constantinople, states, “The population of the whole city saw it with their eyes.”

And Baronius, commenting upon this report, adds the following words:

“Such a great event deserved to be transmitted to the most remote posterity and to be forever recorded in human memory through its mention every year in the ecclesiastical annals. For this reason the Greeks, after inscribing it with the greatest respect into their ancient Menologe, read it publicly every year in their churches.”

Vallee, Jacques; Aubeck, Chris. Wonders in the Sky: Unexplained Aerial Objects from Antiquity to Modern Times (p. 10). Penguin Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.
'Historically, we may regard materialism as a system of dogma set up to combat orthodox dogma...Accordingly we find that, as ancient orthodoxies disintegrate, materialism more and more gives way to scepticism.'

- Bertrand Russell


More from Wonders in the Sky ->

Quote:216 BC, Arpi, Apulia, Italy: Shields  

“At Arpi shields had been seen in the sky and the sun had appeared to be fighting with the moon; at Capena two moons were visible in the daytime.” 

This description from Livy suggests disk-shaped flying objects but could also refer to meteors, as we do not know the duration of the observation. 

Source: The History of Rome Vol III by Livy, trans. Reverend Canon Roberts (Montana: Kessinger Publishing 2004), 54.

Quote:173 BC, Lanuvium, Albano Laziale (Lanuvio), Italy

Aerial fleet “As it was fully expected that there would be war with Macedonia, it was decided that portents should be expiated and prayers offered to win ‘the peace of the Gods,’ of those deities, namely, those mentioned in the Books of Fate. At Lanuvium the sight of a great fleet had been witnessed in the heavens….”

Source: The History of Rome Vol III by Livy, trans. Reverend Canon Roberts (Montana: Kessinger Publishing 2004), 72.

Quote:103 BC, Amelia and Todi, Italy

Shields clashing in the sky During the War with the Cimbri, “from Amelia and Todi, cities of Italy, it was reported that at night there had been seen in the heavens flaming spears, and shields which at first moved in different directions, and then clashed together, assuming the formations and movements of men in battle, and finally some of them would give way, while others pressed on in pursuit, and all streamed away to the westward.” 

The description of the objects’ behavior is puzzling, radically different from what would be expected in the case of a meteor shower. Nor does it fit well with an aurora borealis. Note that Obsequens locates the sighting at Rimini in the Emilia-Romagna region of Italy. 

Source: Plutarch, Plutarch’s Lives, trans. Bernadotte Perrin (Harvard University, 1950) v.9, 509. Also see: Lycosthenes, Julii Obsequentis Prodigiorum Liber…per Conradum Lycosthenem Rubeaquensem integrati suae restitutus (Basel, 1552).

Quote:24 May 12 BC, China, exact location unknown

A large hovering object, fire rain “In the first year of the Yuen-yen period, at the 4th Moon, between 3 P.M. and 5 P.M., by clear sky and serene weather, a sound similar to thunder was heard repeatedly. A meteor (sic) appeared, the front part the size of a vase, over 100 feet long. Its light was red-whitish. It stood far to the SE of the sun. It threw off fiery sparks on four sides, some as large as a pail, others the size of an egg. They fell like rain. This phenomenon lasted until the evening.” 

This is an unexplained episode. Meteors do not linger for two hours, and do not shower the landscape with fiery rain. 

Source: Edouard Biot, Catalogue des étoiles filantes et des autres météores observés en Chine pendant 24 siècles (Paris: Imprimerie Royale, 1846), 9-10. This book provides an extremely valuable record of astronomical observations in China during much of its history.

Just a sample, will post more later...
'Historically, we may regard materialism as a system of dogma set up to combat orthodox dogma...Accordingly we find that, as ancient orthodoxies disintegrate, materialism more and more gives way to scepticism.'

- Bertrand Russell


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(2024-06-29, 06:24 PM)Sciborg_S_Patel Wrote: More from Wonders in the Sky ->





Just a sample, will post more later...

Thanks for these interesting cases from the ancient world. But to keep everything in perspective, I think the Nash-Fortenberry encounter should be looked at in considerable detail, and it was, in an exhaustive 22-page analysis paper done in 2002, https://www.academia.edu/83831064/Revisi..._July_1952 .

Nash and Fortenberry were excellent, acute and expert observers, and were able to recount a lot of detail. Among the many astounding aspects of the encounter, there were multiple points where the objects appeared to be intelligently controlled or piloted. From the paper:

Quote:"Within the few seconds that it took the six objects to come half the distance from where we had first seen them, we could observe that they were holding a narrow echelon formation, a stepped-up line tilted slightly to our right with the leader at the lowest point, and each following craft slightly higher. At about the halfway point, the leader appeared to attempt a sudden slowing. We received this impression because the second and third wavered slightly and seemed almost to overrun the leader, so that for a brief moment during the remainder of their approach the positions of these three varied. It looked very much as if an element of "human" or "intelligence" error had been introduced, in so far as the following two did not react soon enough when the leader began to slow down and so almost overran him."

(later, more maneuvers as if intelligently controlled)-

Quote:"As they climbed, they oscillated up and down behind one another in an irregular fashion, as though they were extremely sensitive to control. In doing this, they went vertically past one another, bobbing up and down, (just as the front three went horizontally past one another, as the initial six approached us. This appeared to be an intelligence error, ‘lousing up the formation’ — they disappeared by blinking out in a mixed-up fashion, in no particular order."

This behavior was also observed from the ground by other witnesses.

Many years later at the time of the writing of the analysis paper, Captain Nash was interviewed again about the encounter, and reiterated the indelible impression it had on him and Fortenberry, that they had encountered something from another world. I think we should take this seriously.

Quote:"Looking at the thing shook us up. We stared at each other, and all of a sudden there was this realization that our world is not alone in the universe. Because, nothing could have advanced to that degree of scientific progress without some of the intermediate steps having become public knowledge, or, at least known to the people who were flying. Bill had just come out of the Navy and was fully acquainted with their latest developments. We just knew that they were not from this planet. I know to this day, that it was nothing from this planet."

The ancient observations you summarized dating back a couple of thousand years could well be taken to be the same sort of phenomenon as the relatively recent post-WWII "foo fighters" phenomenon, but as interpreted by the people of those ancient times. I think the ETH is still a good option for them all including the ancient ones.  We know nothing about the nature of such possible aliens and the planets they might be from, and they quite possibly could have been occasionally visiting us to see if anything interesting was going on, and had their interest perked up by the advent of science and technology, aeronautics and nuclear weapons. 

But of course, "not of this world" could mean something drastically different than from another planetary system in this universe. However, as Nash remarked, wherever they came from, it was not this planet, not this world.
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Whatever you feel their behaviour might suggest, after centuries of sightings and claims of sightings, not one shred of undisputed physical evidence has ever been found.  Not one piece of spaceship or alien body in all that time.  Do all these thousands of presumed aliens coming from light years away, out of the entire universe,  just stumble accidently on Earth (highly unlikely when you think about it) or do they somehow know that Earth is inhabited by humans before they set out?  (also highly unlikely)  Added to that the extreme unlikelihood of being able to get around the laws of physics in order to get here (notice, I am not saying impossible, just extremely unlikely)
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I might point out that many other Earth-like (liquid water on surface, etc.) planets in our Universe or galaxy are definitely known to exist, from the latest astrometric observations using advanced telescopes especially the Hubble and JWST and other space telescopes searching for extra-solar planets. Other planets in this universe are the only definitely existing option known to be available for the source of UFOs - weird time travelers, visitors from other dimensions and parallel universes, a psychically powerful collective unconscious, angels, powerful spiritual beings of some sort, etc. etc. are mostly in the realm of science fiction and at least conventionally scientifically even more impossible than FTL travelling aliens. Orthodox evolutionary biology is even assumed to allow life to have evolved on some of these extrasolar earthlike planets, that conceivably could have developed far beyond Earth humans. That's not science fiction; at least science doesn't think so. There's even a thriving SETI research effort trying to detect electromagnetic signals from such putative alien civilizations.
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(2024-07-01, 02:55 PM)nbtruthman Wrote: I might point out that many other Earth-like (liquid water on surface, etc.) planets in our Universe or galaxy are definitely known to exist, from the latest astrometric observations using advanced telescopes especially the Hubble and JWST and other space telescopes searching for extra-solar planets. Other planets in this universe are the only definitely existing option known to be available for the source of UFOs - weird time travelers, visitors from other dimensions and parallel universes, a psychically powerful collective unconscious, angels, powerful spiritual beings of some sort, etc. etc. are mostly in the realm of science fiction and at least conventionally scientifically even more impossible than FTL travelling aliens. Orthodox evolutionary biology is even assumed to allow life to have evolved on some of these extrasolar earthlike planets, that conceivably could have developed far beyond Earth humans. That's not science fiction; at least science doesn't think so. There's even a thriving SETI research effort trying to detect electromagnetic signals from such putative alien civilizations.

Regardless of how many planets are capable of supporting life, there are a few things to consider:

1.  Life on Earth is a heck of a miracle.  What happened on Earth may have happened on a few other planets but it is statistically unlikely to be prolific across the universe.  Even if it was, it is statistically unlikely that they would have humanoid shapes.

2.  Your post doesn't answer my points which are strong arguments against.

3.  "Visitors" and other "beings" could be anything at all, including hallucinations or fabrications.

4.  I don't know which "time travellers" you are referring to but the alleged ones I am aware of in pictures and videos have all been debunked or explained by normal means.
.
5.  There is no evidence to connect angels to extra-terrestrials.

I would rather just look at the evidence itself, without involving presumptions that have no solid evidence to support them and sorry, but I just don't see aliens in any of this.
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(2024-06-30, 11:59 PM)nbtruthman Wrote: Thanks for these interesting cases from the ancient world. But to keep everything in perspective, I think the Nash-Fortenberry encounter should be looked at in considerable detail, and it was, in an exhaustive 22-page analysis paper done in 2002, https://www.academia.edu/83831064/Revisi..._July_1952 .

Nash and Fortenberry were excellent, acute and expert observers, and were able to recount a lot of detail. Among the many astounding aspects of the encounter, there were multiple points where the objects appeared to be intelligently controlled or piloted. From the paper:


(later, more maneuvers as if intelligently controlled)-


This behavior was also observed from the ground by other witnesses.

Many years later at the time of the writing of the analysis paper, Captain Nash was interviewed again about the encounter, and reiterated the indelible impression it had on him and Fortenberry, that they had encountered something from another world. I think we should take this seriously.


The ancient observations you summarized dating back a couple of thousand years could well be taken to be the same sort of phenomenon as the relatively recent post-WWII "foo fighters" phenomenon, but as interpreted by the people of those ancient times. I think the ETH is still a good option for them all including the ancient ones.  We know nothing about the nature of such possible aliens and the planets they might be from, and they quite possibly could have been occasionally visiting us to see if anything interesting was going on, and had their interest perked up by the advent of science and technology, aeronautics and nuclear weapons. 

But of course, "not of this world" could mean something drastically different than from another planetary system in this universe. However, as Nash remarked, wherever they came from, it was not this planet, not this world.

There are old stories of flying discs and stars, some even seeming to engage in aerial combat.

There are also stories of abductions, and of personages seen in some of the aerial vehicles.

If ETH is the reason for the past stories, and the present ones...what exactly are the aliens interested in? Why does the shape of these ships change across time, as noted in the thread you posted about how craft seem to shift from discs to triangles?

I could at least maybe understand the argument that some kind of "Veil" between dimensions is thinning in places, and the vehicles are only partially existing in our Earth's airspace but come from some kind of parallel Earth or something.

It just seems quite strange that we have ET vehicles that are supposed to be the radar-detected disks/triangles/etc...but also entities that decided to emulate these ET and sometimes appear as Nordic humans, sometimes as Greys [whose] medical equipment was arguably worse than even what humans made in the 1980s...sometimes there are goblin-like creatures in jumpsuits...sometimes there are owls involved...and so on..

Are the different shaped vehicles from different alien races? And why are there so many variants of alien races coming here, though many seem to enjoy wearing tracksuits or jumpsuits? And all of these extraterrestrial civilizations, whose technology seems to massively outpace our own (at least outside medical science), have honored the agreement to avoid publicly disclosing themselves to humanity at large?

We should be easily conquered several times over, or so it seems to me?

I'm not claiming to have the right answer, I am just saying it seems the oddity of the phenomenon + lack of hard evidence of ET vehicles means I just don't see ETH as very plausible. Add in the fakery & scamming and at this point we would need some very hard evidence for ETH to be convincing.
'Historically, we may regard materialism as a system of dogma set up to combat orthodox dogma...Accordingly we find that, as ancient orthodoxies disintegrate, materialism more and more gives way to scepticism.'

- Bertrand Russell


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