Death is the end

"Tim I an unhappy with life... would be nice if an afterlife existed! I would love to be on board. But I will not fall into the trap of wishful thinking"

What's wishful thinking got to do with it. I might just as well address that to you. If you'd read the literature you would know that wishful thinking doesn't come into it. People who don't want NDE's have them and visa versa. You'll have to do better than that, Leuders.  

As for the old "it's just an anecdote excuse" (sceptical excuse number ???)  that used to be the case decades ago but serious discussion has moved beyond that. And no, the idea of oblivion doesn't scare me, only the manner in which it would arrive, if it were true. But I'm certain it's not..and if I'm wrong I'll never know.

Wishful thinking is a big part of belief in an afterlife.

I am not equating an afterlife with having a near-death experience. I am well aware all kinds of people have had NDE's... but they are not evidence for an afterlife... they are evidence of a damaged or dying brain.

http://www.academia.edu/10060970/Occams_...rience_NDE_

"There appears to be no study clearly and objectively demonstrating both the presence of a completely inactive human brain and the synchronous co-presence of striking and vivid NDE taking place at that specific and exact point in time... not one single study."

"The paranormalist view has neither changed nor been endowed with evidential support over the same time period. This view still clings to the same faith-based reasoning and claims it did decades ago... in essence, this is tantamount to no progress at all."

I don't know about the other three, and I think there are many reasons, but you can definitely consider a reason that goes something like... "why am I even having this experience?"

I don't know the answer to that, and taken together with my own research, that's the main reason why I remain open minded on what occurs when I'm irreversibly dead. Seeing as nobody actually living seems able to tell me what happens when I die, that's the most logical position to take from my point of view.

I agree with you there are many reasons but those are the main three I could think of why people believe in an afterlife. Religion has been a very important factor. It is also obviously very common to fear death as we get to old age. The belief in an afterlife is comforting and acts as a psychological coping mechanism. I am not bashing people who believe in one.

Wishful thinking is a big part of belief in an afterlife.

I am not equating an afterlife with having a near-death experience. I am well aware all kinds of people have had NDE's... but they are not evidence for an afterlife... they are evidence of a damaged or dying brain.

http://www.academia.edu/10060970/Occams_...rience_NDE_

Excellent ! Are you Jason Braithwaite ? Yes I've had an email exchange with Jason, if that's you, is it  ? If it is, welcome ! but please don't make disgusting remarks about certain people deceased. (I'll assume you're not though).

He asserts that he has refuted both Michael Sabom and Pim Van Lommel.

His main 'argument' is that there might still be some deep rooted brain activity, un-measurable on the cortical level, sufficient to enable these experiences to occur. (yes, why not when there's nothing else to say )  The data on this, however is very clear. In cardiac arrest, global electrical activity is lost within a maximum of 10-20-30 seconds. (average 15)

What he has conveniently overlooked is that as soon as the heart stops pumping, the brainstem stops functioning. Without a brainstem, it doesn't matter about anything above it, the whole brain is off line. No deep structures still providing some (sceptical get out) back up function.  

Jason is a psychologist (not an MD) so I'm assuming he pretends he doesn't know that... and creatively 'feeds' fellow sceptics like you (are you a guy ?) with what you want to hear. And clearly you swallow it.

I'm not an expert BTW (neither is Braithwaite on this stuff)

Wishful thinking and belief is a big part of denying an afterlife.

I've heard that some people fear their own death, but I can't remember a time that I did. But perhaps my childhood Spiritually Transformative Experience has a bearing on that, although at around 11-12, it's so early in my life that there is no way of knowing if it did make the difference, it *was* incredibly profound, and it does bring me a great deal of comfort.

All I know is that today, I simply don't fear death. If there is something afterwards - particularly if it's interesting - that's great, and if there isn't, it won't matter anyway. The same cannot be said for the dying part though, I've never done that, so I'd really prefer not to have an unpleasant experience as my life draws to a close.

I think the sudden blast of "Why am I having this experience?" presents a major puzzle. You know, you're shaving in the mirror or something, thinking about life, and suddenly all the tumblers come together and you have that brief experience of "What the fuck am I doing...." and just as suddenly, this profound feeling of some awareness, of something about 'you' being 'here' slips through your fingers. That is another of the experiences that lets me keep the door open to something else going on.

Max said "it *was* incredibly profound, and it does bring me a great deal of comfort. "

Why does it bring you comfort ? Your quantum coherence will disappear as soon as your brain turns to cinders.

[Ninshub]

Forgive me for commenting here as I am new but I am pretty sure Leuders is a rationalwiki editor, he has written 'hit-pieces' on various parapsychologists. Some of these parapsychologists I greatly admire but he has written smears about them on this (I)rationalwiki piece of garbage website. He is nothing more than a pseudoskeptic. Why is he not banned from this forum?

Everyone is allowed to post here, even if it's James Randi or Donald Trump. Only their behavior on this board is evaluated.

Also, we are not here to pirate the internet or to play web detectives and play an impossible game of figuring out posters' real world identities.

If someone has a problem with a member posting on this forum, or suspects them of being a sockpuppet account, etc. etc., they are asked to PM the administrators if they really feel the need to do so, not to post about it in the forum. Those posts will likely get deleted.