Commentary thread for tim's "NDE's" thread

Edited : He did say he was dead, Leadville. He had to be defibrillated in the OR which meant his heart had stopped.  Clinically dead, really dead, very dead, does it matter as regards the state of the person's consciousness ?

Dead is final - no coming back.  Heart stopping doesn't equal death. As he was still around after the event, he wasn't dead.  Ergo "...appeared to be clincally dead." 

Consciousness disappears in both cases but returns in only one of them.  

Dead is final - no coming back.  Hear stopping doesn't equal death. As he was still around after the event, he wasn't dead.  Ergo "...appeared to be clincally dead." 

Consciousness disappears in both cases but returns in only one of them.  

Well then ~ apparently, you can come back from death. If people report explicitly floating outside of their bodies, then their bodies must be, for all intents and purposes, truly, fully and clinically dead, no exceptions, and if they are able to report events that their dead bodies obviously cannot sense, then their consciousness does not disappear, because it has merely detached from the dead body. Therefore, consciousness is non-physical, and survives death.

This post says a profound lot, in this regard: http://psiencequest.net/forums/thread-nd...8#pid13878

Death is a process, it is not a black and white moment.

The entire focus on whether or not someone is "really" dead totally and completely misses the point, and ignores a number of important components of NDEs.

The entire focus on whether or not someone is "really" dead totally and completely misses the point, and ignores a number of important components of NDEs.

Indeed ~ I find the OBE aspect of NDEs to be most fascinating.

I wonder what it would be like if someone just having an ordinary OBE ran into someone who was having the NDE type of OBE. Would make for an interesting conversation.

You know, maybe it's just the seasonal depression talking but sometimes I just feel like I'm not going to survive death. This could go in a number of threads and be relevent, but I was just thinking about NDEs so I posted here. Id love to talk to some actual NDErs about it because they seem to have completely overstepped such doubt

Death is a process, it is not a black and white moment.

You're the one framing it as a black and white moment, because NDEs come in different varieties.

Those who have an NDE obviously go through the process of coming close to irreversible death, only to narrowly avoid it by having to return to their body. Those that have an OBE during their NDE get to experience this more intimately than those that don't, because they can actually see the dead body they previously occupied.

You know, maybe it's just the seasonal depression talking but sometimes I just feel like I'm not going to survive death. This could go in a number of threads and be relevent, but I was just thinking about NDEs so I posted here. Id love to talk to some actual NDErs about it because they seem to have completely overstepped such doubt

If you can't talk to them, you can go half-way and read their accounts, at least.

You know, maybe it's just the seasonal depression talking but sometimes I just feel like I'm not going to survive death. This could go in a number of threads and be relevent, but I was just thinking about NDEs so I posted here. Id love to talk to some actual NDErs about it because they seem to have completely overstepped such doubt

Feelings can be very deceptive can’t they? I’d say, if you haven’t already, then an open minded look at the body of evidence will give you balance however imho nothing comes near, in ‘value’, to an unequivocal evidential direct personal experience hence the “overstepping of doubt”.. They don’t seem to happen on demand though unfortunately. 

The in personal testimony difficulty for me is that there are so many variables: who is the person reporting it? How far can I trust their recall? How far can I trust their judgement etc.

Feelings can be very deceptive can’t they? I’d say, if you haven’t already, then an open minded look at the body of evidence will give you balance however imho nothing comes near, in ‘value’, to an unequivocal evidential direct personal experience hence the “overstepping of doubt”.. They don’t seem to happen on demand though unfortunately. 

The in personal testimony difficulty for me is that there are so many variables: who is the person reporting it? How far can I trust their recall? How far can I trust their judgement etc.

I'm not new to the evidence, I just suffer God awful self doubt and anxiety. I consider myself a proponent for sure. For me personally, I don't know if it is the variables of personal testimony are what bothers me but rather the accusations of it's all wishful thinking or coincidence.