Cherylee Black psychokinesis after NDE, any proof?

I don't think it makes any sense to be suspicious of a PK claim because someone wanted to make money off of it. Might as well be suspicious of anyone who wants to make money for any reason. If someone could do PK even at a high level that wouldn't mean they suddenly didn't need to eat anymore or live somewhere. So it would be natural to leverage their skill for money like literally everyone else in the world.

Likewise I personally find the argument that "if they had it you'd think they'd make video's proving it to humanity" to be very tired and honestly naive if not outright arrogant. If someone had high level PK they have zero obligation to prove it to anyone and in fact would have a lot more to gain from hiding it so they could get away with things secretly. The potential fame from proving it may result in total destruction of them, their, family, and/or their friends lives. It may put  their safety in danger either from religious groups who see PK as evil or potentially governments for a wide variety of reasons as well.

To be honest these two points, that they still need money to live and there's a lot of reason not to prove it even if you have it, are so basic that I outright expect anyone who claims to be sceptical of these things to know them already like the back of their hand and not make those arguments in the first place. And if they don't then I simply don't believe they're as rational as they think they are about their sceptisism. For to not have thought of these things demonstrates that, in their mind, PK or similar cannot be normal It must be magical. It isn't like other skills or abilities, its special and different. You could never have it become just a normal thing that people can learn how to do like anything else. In their mind, its not real, therefore to consider it means breaking reality and thus any normal real world considerations that would've been paid to literally any other real world scenario. Thus the alleged sceptic cannot ever find the proof they claim to want because they've already decided implicitly that it doesn't exist.

I'm doing my best to develop PK myself and I have no interest at this moment in doing any sort of video on what little I can do right now and Sean Mcnamara illustrates why perfectly. As much as I appreciate what he does, his effects are simply too weak for most people to care about let alone sceptics to believe. One reason PK isn't widely accepted is because anyone who's manifested anything so far for the most part has only done so at superficial levels that at best amount to it being a neat trick. Such things aren't worth recording in my opinion which is why I don't bother. If Sean did a recording of himself levitating a 100kg mass at 30 meters and moving it around at will then people would take notice because now he's doing something that has real world practical value.

I don't have the hatred of Randi and JREF that others do, I do think that if you're going to claim you can do PK or similar with the expectation that others should believe you you should be able to not only prove it on the spot but be capable of an effect worth caring about. I say lots of crazy things on this site and more than likely should not be taken seriously for any of them. But I also make it clear that I don't expect anyone to believe me or take it seriously and it seems for the most part no one does, which is expected. As a result no one could reasonably demand proof from me as far as I'm concerned unless they seriously believe that I'm not allowed to believe my own first hand experiences based on my reasoning unless they say so.

I don't strictly ascribe to the "pics or it didn't happen" school of thought anymore. If I did I wouldn't've learned anything about PK or any of the stuff I've worked on. I would've just sat there, waiting impudently for reality to spoonfeed me evidence. Instead I focus on my desire to make PK real and putting in the work to figure out how to do that. Which has slowly made me abandon pure rationality over time as it made me outright ignore incredibly powerful evidence for some of the more extreme things I've experienced. I have little doubt that high level PK is possible, but it's going to require either A: someone to come along with incredibly powerful and controllable abilities or B: people to start treating it as an implicitly possible but currently undeveloped skill before its potential can be realized. Similar to how martial arts would have been before it's initial development at least 1500 years ago. I'm personally trying to go the former route but we'll see if that happens or not.

I don't think it makes any sense to be suspicious of a PK claim because someone wanted to make money off of it. Might as well be suspicious of anyone who wants to make money for any reason.

But I think if any question of potential dishonesty arises, then it's obviously relevant if someone stands to gain financially, because it provides a possible motive. That would be the same whether we were talking about paranormal or non-paranormal claims.

I don't think we should place financial gain as a primary or significant motive. To take an example from another area, that of the crime or murder. In lots of fiction there are financial motives, for example in Agatha Christie novels. But when we look at real-world murder cases, motives are not like that, they range from the most trivial to the most intense, often real life bears little resemblance to these fictionalised accounts.

The same with someone who has say a Near-Death Experience. A lot of times we read a newspaper account of such a thing, and the sceptical comments at the bottom say - "yeah, just as I thought, they wrote a book" - implying its a get-rich-quick scheme. But in the few made-up or exaggerated cases which come to light, it is rarely a financial motive, it might be to promote a religious belief or some other reason, but not money.

To me it seems odd that if someone sails across the Atlantic in a barrel and writes a book about it, we don't say, they only did it so they could make money by selling books, human motives are rarely that simplistic.

I don't think it makes any sense to be suspicious of a PK claim because someone wanted to make money off of it. Might as well be suspicious of anyone who wants to make money for any reason. If someone could do PK even at a high level that wouldn't mean they suddenly didn't need to eat anymore or live somewhere. So it would be natural to leverage their skill for money like literally everyone else in the world.

Likewise I personally find the argument that "if they had it you'd think they'd make video's proving it to humanity" to be very tired and honestly naive if not outright arrogant. If someone had high level PK they have zero obligation to prove it to anyone and in fact would have a lot more to gain from hiding it so they could get away with things secretly. The potential fame from proving it may result in total destruction of them, their, family, and/or their friends lives. It may put  their safety in danger either from religious groups who see PK as evil or potentially governments for a wide variety of reasons as well.

To be honest these two points, that they still need money to live and there's a lot of reason not to prove it even if you have it, are so basic that I outright expect anyone who claims to be sceptical of these things to know them already like the back of their hand and not make those arguments in the first place. And if they don't then I simply don't believe they're as rational as they think they are about their sceptisism. For to not have thought of these things demonstrates that, in their mind, PK or similar cannot be normal It must be magical. It isn't like other skills or abilities, its special and different. You could never have it become just a normal thing that people can learn how to do like anything else. In their mind, its not real, therefore to consider it means breaking reality and thus any normal real world considerations that would've been paid to literally any other real world scenario. Thus the alleged sceptic cannot ever find the proof they claim to want because they've already decided implicitly that it doesn't exist.

I'm doing my best to develop PK myself and I have no interest at this moment in doing any sort of video on what little I can do right now and Sean Mcnamara illustrates why perfectly. As much as I appreciate what he does, his effects are simply too weak for most people to care about let alone sceptics to believe. One reason PK isn't widely accepted is because anyone who's manifested anything so far for the most part has only done so at superficial levels that at best amount to it being a neat trick. Such things aren't worth recording in my opinion which is why I don't bother. If Sean did a recording of himself levitating a 100kg mass at 30 meters and moving it around at will then people would take notice because now he's doing something that has real world practical value.

I don't have the hatred of Randi and JREF that others do, I do think that if you're going to claim you can do PK or similar with the expectation that others should believe you you should be able to not only prove it on the spot but be capable of an effect worth caring about. I say lots of crazy things on this site and more than likely should not be taken seriously for any of them. But I also make it clear that I don't expect anyone to believe me or take it seriously and it seems for the most part no one does, which is expected. As a result no one could reasonably demand proof from me as far as I'm concerned unless they seriously believe that I'm not allowed to believe my own first hand experiences based on my reasoning unless they say so.

I don't strictly ascribe to the "pics or it didn't happen" school of thought anymore. If I did I wouldn't've learned anything about PK or any of the stuff I've worked on. I would've just sat there, waiting impudently for reality to spoonfeed me evidence. Instead I focus on my desire to make PK real and putting in the work to figure out how to do that. Which has slowly made me abandon pure rationality over time as it made me outright ignore incredibly powerful evidence for some of the more extreme things I've experienced. I have little doubt that high level PK is possible, but it's going to require either A: someone to come along with incredibly powerful and controllable abilities or B: people to start treating it as an implicitly possible but currently undeveloped skill before its potential can be realized. Similar to how martial arts would have been before it's initial development at least 1500 years ago. I'm personally trying to go the former route but we'll see if that happens or not.

I get what you say, but since materialism is the mainstream science Mcnamara small feats can help debunk it. Even something tiny and harmless like that still has to be explained, and first we have to rule out frauds. How can he do that stuff using fraudolent methods? If there is no fraud, then we can attack materialism even on such a small thing.

As far as lifting 100kg of stuff i'm pretty sure it is impossible. Same as stopping bullets or similar feats, it's real of movies and fiction. And, even is somebody could be able of doing something like that, he/she would be taken be the governament or corporations in no time to become a test subject, sliced up and used to find a way to weaponize his ability. And we would never know about it since the people doing it would cover it up. I mean, who wouldn't want supersoldiers?

NDEs are different as they are harmless and can't be weaponized so no agency will threaten them directly. But who claims to have superpowers, albeit small, after an NDE should give people proof of them, or I'll remain skeptical.

While its naive to believe all folks capable of meaningful feats of PK would broadly promote such abilities, I think its equally naive to presume at least one wouldn't.

Hence the primary reason I struggle with the notion that 100's, thousands, or even tens of thousands of people have such abilities.  Somehow, someway, this would have become mainstream knowledge.  Right?

While its naive to believe all folks capable of meaningful feats of PK would broadly promote such abilities, I think its equally naive to presume at least one wouldn't.

Hence the primary reason I struggle with the notion that 100's, thousands, or even tens of thousands of people have such abilities.  Somehow, someway, this would have become mainstream knowledge.  Right?

My idea exactly. If PK exists, and apart from this McNamara that you showed me looking legit i don't know of any other case, I would have imagined that at least one video of large scale TK would have surfaced.

I suppose the best one can do is feats like the ones of McNamara, if he is real. Anybody ever tested him?

My idea exactly. If PK exists, and apart from this McNamara that you showed me looking legit i don't know of any other case, I would have imagined that at least one video of large scale TK would have surfaced.

I suppose the best one can do is feats like the ones of McNamara, if he is real. Anybody ever tested him?

I'm not knocking scepticism, but it is a bit noticeable that you've gone from "Apparently this woman has been tested but I want to see a video" to "Nice video, but has this guy been tested?" in a couple of pages.

I'm not knocking scepticism, but it is a bit noticeable that you've gone from "Apparently this woman has been tested but I want to see a video" to "Nice video, but has this guy been tested?" in a couple of pages.

I just saw a man make a a very light object spin inside a glass container. It's odd, and if it is real it defies natural laws.

To fully believe him, I need to see him tested. As of now, there are no ufficialy recognized PK skills in the world. Nina Kulagina was found to be a fraud, at least according to her wikipedia page:
"Kulagina was suspected of utilizing hidden magnets and threads to perform her feats.[3] She was caught cheating on more than one occasion, according to British authors Joel Levy[4] and Mike Dash[5] and American science writer Martin Gardner.[6] In 1987, Kulagina sued and won a partial victory in a defamation case brought against a Soviet government magazine that had accused her of fraud.[7]"


Uri Geller never wanted to be lab tested. So I can take him out of the equation, as somebody that doesn't want to be tested yet makes money on TV is a fraud in my opinion.

A scientist discovering true, verified PK would probably win a Noble prize and revolutionize science as we know it. If people has been tested under lab conditions, like Cherylee Black is supposed to have been tested, why haven't the news gone public? The same happens for this Sean McNamara, he claims to have a superpower that can bring a total revolution to our scientific paradigm, why is nobody testing his claims under strict lab conditions?

As far as I know if somebody hasn't been 1) lab tested 2)the testing made public, PK can be a fake. If these two conditions aren't met it could be anything, from hot air, hidden magnets or strings, static electricity, gravity making stuff move on its own and so on. Those two conditions are necessary for me to believe in PK, otherwise I'll remain doubtful.

Raf999

In general, you may find Wikipedia not to be the most reliable source for information about parapsychology.

And Uri Geller certainly did do some lab tests - we have a whole thread on it somewhere. Of course the tests have been criticised, so the criticisms need to be evaluated.