Cherylee Black psychokinesis after NDE, any proof?

I think it was silly for Raf999 to claim he'd found the explanation for this phenomenon without checking whether his suggestion had already been considered, but can't we try to remain a bit more courteous on a personal level?

I'm accustomed to personal attacks.

in response to Mediochre, I wasn't challenging a martial arts master after 15 minutes of training, it was the master himself telling me that I can do the same stuff he does in 15 minutes, at a basic level at least. Gettiing it from here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-l1HXfE...qucVvRpqHQ

I tried the same experiment today, my setup is a bit smaller than his own (the tinfoil has to fit inside a drinking glass, I don't have anything else at home right now) but he in the comments says that probably experimenting with setups not just like his own can work too.

So I started today without the glass on, and the tinfoil follows my hand and starts to spin on his own when i get them close to it. Even really small movements, like finger movements, can make it turn around in my desired direction. It's airflow, even if I was in closed room air is still there and the tin is so light and so lightly balanced that the smallest air movement makes it spin, even moving the hands incredibly slowly. So, there is really no point in trying to do this without the glass on it.

I then placed the glass on it, waited a few minutes to make sure the tinfoil wasn't gonna spin on it's own because it was off-balance, and I found it stable. I proceeded to place both of my hands on the glass, I was pretty sure warming it would have made it spin in less then a minute like it did yesterday, but nothing. I tried it a few other times, changing the position or balance of the tinfoil a bit or even reducing its lenght, but nothing at all happened. I was a bit surprised, why wasn't it moving?

So I said, let's test if it is hot air with something real hot. I applied a flame directly on the glass, making it so hot I couldn't keep my hands on it for long or it would burn. It was much hotter than anything my hands could ever produce. I got just a slight movement, but only after heating it up really much. So, I don't get how his hands are making the wheel spin like that just through hot air.

Is it that my glass was short, while his glass containers are much taller so even with a much lower source of heat the wheel spins because there is a bigger airflow inside? Or I don't get it. Was it me yesterday making the wheel spin with some "spontaneus" PK while today I couldn't do it? It feels a bit weird honestly.

I then saw that he uploaded just some hours ago this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMNyeAvo...m9VTkdUJFq

So, it looks like somebody is trying to test what he does in a somewhat controlled environement. I don't know this IONS place, but I am hoping there are real scientists and PHDs there that can look at what he can do with some kind of protocol.

Also, I must say it could be I'm not the best person to do any kind of psi experiment. As far as I know one needs to focus and have a clear head, stable mind and such. I'm under antidepressants, mood stabilyzers and a bit of ansiolitics, as the idea that the world is fully material and we are meat robots shocked me heavily and I started thinking about free will, end of life and such. It messed me up good, the meds keep me in check but I'm sure not stable, so sorry if sometimes I come along rough but all of my life I believed materialsm was the only true answer, basically NDEs made me think that there could be "something else" and I cling to them, but I am extremely skeptical of all the rest of paranormal phenomena.

Raf999, you're not the only one to experience the full weight of the materialist perspective. I myself have been on a dark and distressing journey through it. I found my way out through a combination of prayer (pretty crazy for an atheist/materialist right?) and the uncovering of evidence of survival beyond death. It wasn't the idea of survival itself which meant very much, it was the realisation that I didn't know very much, there was a bigger picture, not only bigger, but an optimistic and hopeful one. That was quite a turn around over a pretty short space of time.

These things though tend to be personal and not easily explained to other people. In much the same way I suppose, as someone who has an NDE finds it impossible to put properly into words, we get a sketch, an outline but the experience itself is hard to grasp.

As it happens, I'd already found in my own life examples of telepathy, often occurring through dreams, but also via intuitive thoughts. I can't do these things on demand in a laboratory, for me they are always in connection with someone else with whom I have a strong emotional bond.

In my view most of us experience these things from time to time in stressful or emotional circumstances, for example when another person is seriously ill or their life is in danger, we may become aware of it. These cannot be ethically tested in a laboratory, the whole world is the stage on which they take place, involving real people in real life situations.

Also, I must say it could be I'm not the best person to do any kind of psi experiment. As far as I know one needs to focus and have a clear head, stable mind and such. I'm under antidepressants, mood stabilyzers and a bit of ansiolitics, as the idea that the world is fully material and we are meat robots shocked me heavily and I started thinking about free will, end of life and such. It messed me up good, the meds keep me in check but I'm sure not stable, so sorry if sometimes I come along rough but all of my life I believed materialsm was the only true answer, basically NDEs made me think that there could be "something else" and I cling to them, but I am extremely skeptical of all the rest of paranormal phenomena.

Sorry to hear about your troubles, Raf. I think many of us have been there. That wasn't what drove me to investigate NDE's though, rather it was the certainty that I've been here before (sorry for repeating myself to others who've heard this ad infinitum).  Consciousness isn't created by the brain and doesn't end when the brain dies and materialists can say whatever they want about it being impossible, there's far too much evidence to dismiss it now.

I think life is wholly unsatisfactory for so many reasons but that's not why I think consciousness continues. life is often just as crap as it is good and mostly somewhere in between, but on the whole unsatisfactory at least for most of us (if we're honest) and I suspect it is meant to be. I definitely don't think NDE's should ever be used as a reason to choose an early exit (just to be clear not judgemental) But I'm not suggesting that you're contemplating anything like that, anyway. Just trying to be clear on a public forum.

Sorry to hear about your troubles, Raf. I think many of us have been there. That wasn't what drove me to investigate NDE's though, rather it was the certainty that I've been here before (sorry for repeating myself to others who've heard this ad infinitum).  Consciousness isn't created by the brain and doesn't end when the brain dies and materialists can say whatever they want about it being impossible, there's far too much evidence to dismiss it now.

I think life is wholly unsatisfactory for so many reasons but that's not why I think consciousness continues. life is often just as crap as it is good and mostly somewhere in between, but on the whole unsatisfactory at least for most of us (if we're honest) and I suspect it is meant to be. I definitely don't think NDE's should ever be used as a reason to choose an early exit (just to be clear not judgemental) But I'm not suggesting that you're contemplating anything like that, anyway. Just trying to be clear on a public forum.

Oh not at all! I like life, i have a good family, friends and a lovely GF. It's that without something "higher", a purpose to our existence, everything seems a bit... bleak. Like, what's the point at all?

Oh not at all! I like life, i have a good family, friends and a lovely GF. It's that without something "higher", a purpose to our existence, everything seems a bit... bleak. Like, what's the point at all?

I completely agree.

I'm accustomed to personal attacks.

I didn't even see this at the time. I was annoyed because you first responded with your heat idea, other people came in and tried to politely tell you maybe to try again and then you came back again just saying, "nope it's just heat" and I'm personally just done with playing nice with those sorts of attitudes. I expect better from people claiming they're trying to be rational given how much psi proponents or seekers get told they're irrational. Something that is very deserved sometimes, don't get me wrong. I don't think anything will change unless people start holding both sides to the flame.

That being said, you've already become a pretty great member of the community.

I didn't even see this at the time. I was annoyed because you first responded with your heat idea, other people came in and tried to politely tell you maybe to try again and then you came back again just saying, "nope it's just heat" and I'm personally just done with playing nice with those sorts of attitudes. I expect better from people claiming they're trying to be rational given how much psi proponents or seekers get told they're irrational. Something that is very deserved sometimes, don't get me wrong. I don't think anything will change unless people start holding both sides to the flame.

That being said, you've already become a pretty great member of the community.

Thanks! And don't worry, no offense taken. I was just baffled by how people just assumes that PK/TK is really at work in untested cases such as Mcnamara or Cherylee, honestly I'm still skeptical about true PK

I don't think we should place financial gain as a primary or significant motive. To take an example from another area, that of the crime or murder. In lots of fiction there are financial motives, for example in Agatha Christie novels. But when we look at real-world murder cases, motives are not like that, they range from the most trivial to the most intense, often real life bears little resemblance to these fictionalised accounts.

The same with someone who has say a Near-Death Experience. A lot of times we read a newspaper account of such a thing, and the sceptical comments at the bottom say - "yeah, just as I thought, they wrote a book" - implying its a get-rich-quick scheme. But in the few made-up or exaggerated cases which come to light, it is rarely a financial motive, it might be to promote a religious belief or some other reason, but not money.

To me it seems odd that if someone sails across the Atlantic in a barrel and writes a book about it, we don't say, they only did it so they could make money by selling books, human motives are rarely that simplistic.

To my mind the key is evidence not motive. Motives are, as you rightly say, often very difficult to determine and complex. I don’t see anything wrong with asking “show me”.